Ralph I "the Timid" de Mantes, earl of Hereford

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Ralph de Mantes, Earl of Hereford

French: Raoul de Mantes, Earl of Hereford
Also Known As: "Raoul", "the Timid", "Ralph /De Sudeley/", "Ralph", "Rudolf", "Rudolph", "Rudulph"
Birthdate: (31)
Birthplace: Mantes (Present Mantes-la-Jolie), Pays de France (Present Region Ile-de-France), France
Death: Died in England, (Present UK)
Place of Burial: Peterborough, Northamptonshire, England, UK
Immediate Family:

Son of Dreux de Mantes, Comte du Vexin et d'Amiens; Count of Vixin Dreux and Godgifu
Husband of Gytha, countess of Hereford
Father of Harold Fitz Ralph Drake; Harold de Ewyas; Daughter de Sudeley and Harold de Ewyas I, Lord of Ewyas
Brother of Adele de Mantes; Fouques de Mantes, Évêque d'Amiens (1057 - c1077); Gauthier III de Mantes, comte de Mantes; Poutoise de Mantes and Drogon d'Amiens

Occupation: Earl of Hereford, Norfolk, and Suffolk, Comte, de Hereford, Sieur, de Sudeley, de Toddington, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk - see http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_487.htm, Earl Suffolk
Managed by: Tiffany Beesley Brock
Last Updated:

About Ralph I "the Timid" de Mantes, earl of Hereford

Relationships:

Parents:

  • Father: Dreux/Drogo de Mantes (d. 13 August 1035, somewhere west of Nicaea en route to Europe), Comte de Mantes, Comte d"Amiens
  • Mother: Godgifu/Goda of England (d. before 1049)

Siblings:

  • 2. Gauthier III de Mantes (1031-1063, poisoned at Falaise by henchmen of Guillaume II de Normandie after capture in war contesting the Comte du Maine), Comte de Mantes (1035-1063), m. Biote du Maine (poisoned to death around same time)
  • 3. Foulques de Mantes, Bishop of Amiens (possibly listed as Foulques de Valois, the nephew, served 1057-c1077)

Spouse:

  • Unknown. (Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700 - by Frederick Lewis Weis and Walter Lee Shepard, Jr. - suggested the name Getha. However this is a secondary source and the source of a lot of unaccountable information - verification is advised before accepting this as even likely; English Wikipedia names her as Gytha without providing citation).

Children:

  • 1. Harold de Ewias of Ewyas Harold, Herefordshire (d. after 1100)

Explanations: Drogo de Mantes, if accompanying Robert I/II "le Magnifique" de Normandie back from Jerusalem, would have passed through Nicaea on July 1-3, when Robert was poisoned to death. I haven't found the actual story of what happened after Robert's death to his accompanying knights.

Basic information:

Birth: Unknown. One estimate (unattributed and unsourced) places it around 1030.

Baptism: Unknown.

Marriage: Unknown.

Death: 21 December 1057, supposedly broken from the shock of having lost Herefordshire to the Welsh.

Burial: Peterborough Abbey Church, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, England

Occupation: Earl of Hereford (1052 - 21 December 1057), references are made to a Lordship of Sudeley, but this does not appear to be applicable to Ralph de Mantes. The first Baron of Sudeley was created in 1299, nearly a century and a half after his death. Reference is also made to Lord of Sudeley and Toddington - this was created in 1838. Likely the reference given to Sudeley in FMG was from Ralph's son Harold being given the 10th century Sudeley Manor during the Norman conquest, a possession that apparently didn't include a title in 1066.

Alternate Names: Ralph or Raoul "The Timid" de Mantes, Earl of Hereford


From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on Paris Region Nobility, Chapter 7 Comte de Mantes (covering his birth family):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PARIS%20REGION%20NOBILITY.htm#RaoulHereforddied1057A

DREUX [Drogo] de Mantes (-[13 Aug] [1035]).

  • "Walterius comes" donated property "prope nostrum castellum…Medanta" to "Carnotensi monasterio Sancti Petri", for the soul of "coniugis mee Adelidis filiorumque meorum", by charter to [1006], signed by "Walterii comitis, Rodulfi filii eius, Drogonis filii eius…"[1301].
  • He succeeded his father as Comte de Mantes.
  • Comte d'Amiens. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1302].
  • He accompanied Robert II Duke of Normandy to Jerusalem and died on the journey[1303]. According to Orderic Vitalis, Henri I King of France took back the Vexin after the death of Comte Drogo[1304]. The necrology of Reims Saint-Rémi records the death "X Kal Aug" of "Drogo comes"[1305].

m ([1025 or before]) as her first husband, GODGIFU [Goda] of England, daughter of ÆTHELRED II "the Unready" King of England & his second wife Emma de Normandie (-before 1049).

  • Her parentage is stated by Orderic Vitalis, who says that Godgifu went into exile in Normandy with her brother[1306] in 1013. According to Orderic Vitalis, her first marriage was arranged by Robert II Duke of Normandy[1307], indicating that she probably did not return to England. This information is suspect, assuming that the charter of "Robertus Rex", which names "Comes Drogo…cum duobus fratribus Fulcone…et Rodulpho necnon uxore cum filiis supra memorati Drogonis", is correctly dated to 1025 as Duke Robert did not succeed as duke until 1027[1308].
  • Another possibility is that Drogo's children at that date were born from an earlier otherwise unrecorded marriage. There is no indication of the birth dates of his known children shown below, but the fact that none of them was given a typically Anglo-Saxon name also suggests that Godgifu may not have been the mother of all of them (although she is attested as mother of the son Raoul, see below).
  • "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1309].
  • Godgifu married secondly ([1036]) as his first wife, Eustache [II] Comte de Boulogne . Her second marriage is referred to by Florence of Worcester[1310].

Comte Drogo & his wife had three children:

a) RAOUL de Mantes (-21 Dec 1057, bur Peterborough).

  • His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis[1311].
  • Florence of Worcester calls Raoul the "son of King Edward's sister"[1312]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1313]. Simeon of Durham names "earl Rodulph the son of king Eadward's sister Goda" in 1051[1314].
  • Earl of Hereford.

b) GAUTHIER [III] de Mantes (before [29 Mar 1030/10 Apr 1031]-poisoned Falaise [2 Aug] 1063).

  • His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him after his brother Raoul[1315]. "Drogo comes" agreed to donate property to Jumièges by charter dated to [29 Mar 1030/10 Apr 1031] subscribed by "Walterii filius eius"[1316]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[1317].
  • He succeeded his father in 1035 as Comte de Mantes.
  • "Comes Walterius" confirmed a donation of property, held by "pater meus Droco comes", to "cœnobii sancti Petri Carnotensis" by charter dated Feb 1055, witnessed by "Teduinus vicecomes Mellentis castri, Gualo vicecomes castri Calidi Montis…"[1318]. "Comes Gualterius" donated property to Chartres Saint-Père by charter dated 22 Jan 1060 which names "pater meus Drogo comes"[1319].
  • He claimed the county of Maine, by right of his wife, after the death in Mar 1062 of her nephew Héribert [II] Comte du Maine and took possession[1320]. Guillaume II Duke of Normandy defeated and imprisoned him end-1063.
  • Orderic Vitalis records that Gauthier and his wife died "poisoned - so the rumour goes - by the evil machinations of their enemies", and that Duke Guillaume took control over Maine after this[1321]. The necrology of Saint-Père-en-Vallée records the death "IV Non Aug" of "Gualterius comes"[1322], which may refer to Comte Gauthier [III].
  • m BIOTE du Maine, daughter of HERIBERT [I] "Eveille-Chien" Comte du Maine & his wife --- (-poisoned Falaise 1063). Guillaume de Poitiers names "la sœur de Hugues" as wife of "Gautier comte de Mantes", when recording the latter's claim to Maine[1323]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified.

c) FOULQUES de Mantes . His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis, who lists him after his two brothers and specifies that he was Bishop of Amiens[1324].

References:

  • [1301] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLIII, p. 170.
  • [1302] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1303] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 117, and Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1304] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1305] 'Obits mémorables tirés de nécrologes luxembourgeois, rémois et messins', Revue Mabillon VI (1910-1911), p. 274.
  • [1306] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1307] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1308] RHGF X, L, p. 622.
  • [1309] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1310] Forester, T. (trans.) (1854) The Chronicles of Florence of Worcester with two continuations (London), 1051, p. 150.
  • [1311] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1312] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157.
  • [1313] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1314] Stevenson, J. (trans.) (1855) The Historical Works of Simeon of Durham (London) (“Simeon of Durham”), p. 535.
  • [1315] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [1316] Vernier, J. J. (ed.) (1916) Chartes de l'abbaye de Jumièges, Tome I c 825-1169 (Rouen, Paris) 14, p. 46.
  • [1317] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [1318] Chartres Saint-Père I, Liber Septimus, Cap. LXXIV, p. 199.
  • [1319] Chartres Saint-Père, II, Codex Diplomaticus Pars Tertia ex Schedis D. Muley, 4, p. 625.
  • [1320] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 117.
  • [1321] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. II, Book III, p. 119.
  • [1322] Obituaires de Sens Tome II, Abbaye de Saint-Père-enVallée, p. 193.
  • [1323] Davis, R. H. C. and Chibnall. M. (eds. and trans.) (1998) The Gesta Guillelmi of William of Poitiers (Oxford), p. 362.
  • [1324] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.

From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page on English Nobility Medieval (covering his married life):

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm#_Toc254344892

RAOUL de Mantes, son of DREUX Comte de Mantes & his wife Godgifu [Goda] of England ([1025/30]-21 Dec 1057, bur Peterborough[181]). His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis[182]. Florence of Worcester calls Raoul the "son of King Edward's sister"[183]. "Droco comes Ambianensium" donated property to "Sancti Petri Gismoensis" by undated charter, signed by "Droconis comitis, Eotde comitissæ, Falconis fratris comitis, Rodulfi filiii comitis, Gualterii alterius filii…"[184]. Simeon of Durham names "earl Rodulph the son of king Eadward's sister Goda" in 1051[185]. He was created Earl of Hereford. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records that “earl Ralph” rallied to the support of Edward "the Confessor" King of England “throughout his earldom” in Sep 1051 when Godwin Earl of Wessex and his sons were threatening force against the king, and “came to Gloucestershire to the king’s assistance...willing to attack Godwine’s levies if the king had wished it”[186]. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records in 1052 that “the king and his council decided that ships should be sent out to Sandwich [as defence against the return of Earl Godwin], and earl Ralph and earl Odda were put in command”[187]. Florence of Worcester records that he assembled an army to defend Hereford against Earl Ælfgar and Gruffydd Prince of South Wales but fled 24 Oct 1055, describing Ralph as “cowardly”[188]. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records in 1055 that “earl Ælfgar son of earl Leofric...went to Ireland and to Wales and raised there a great force and marched on Hereford; but earl Ralph came against him with a great host, and after a brief encounter they were put to flight and many were slain in that rout”, manuscript C clarifying that “earl Ralph gathered great levies to oppose them at Hereford, and they came together there: but before a spear was thrown, the English fled, because they had been made to fight on horseback”, adding that “earl Harold had an earthwork built around the town [of Hereford]”[189]. This last comment suggests that Earl Ralph was removed from the government of Hereford, although the later entry which records his death still accords him the comital title. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records in 1057 that “on 21 December earl Ralph passed away and was buried at Peterborough”[190].

m GYTHA, daughter of --- (-after 1066). Domesday Book records, in relation to land in Waddesdon Hundred, Buckinghamshire which "Ambrose holds of William Adstock", that “this manor Gytha wife of Earl Ralph held and could sell”, and “William himself holds Haversham...this manor Countess Gytha held”, as well as “Drogo holds of William Stoke Goldington...this manor Countess Gytha held”[191]. Bannister comments that “Earl Ralph...had married an English woman, probably of Godwin’s house or kin” (without citing any primary source which indicates that the statement might be correct)[192]. Her name suggests English (or at least Danish) origin. It is of course the name of the widow of Earl Godwin, but as the birth of Godwin’s first child is dated to [1020/22] his widow would have been in her late 40s when her husband died so unlikely to have married Earl Ralph as her second husband and given birth to a child by him. Earl Ralph’s wife could have been an otherwise unrecorded daughter of Earl Godwin and his wife Gytha, named after her mother, although on the basis of the limited information available in the document ANGLO-SAXON NOBILITY it was unusual for the child of an Anglo-Saxon noble family to be named after a parent. A connection with Godwin’s family would explain the introduction of the name Harold into the Ewias family.

Raoul & his wife had one child:

1. HAROLD de Ewias of Ewias Harold, Herefordshire ([1050/57]-after 1120). His birth date is estimated from the chronology of his father’s life. Bannister suggests that Harold “could only have been a boy in January 1066”, adding that “he was then a minor in the wardship of Queen Edith, widow of the Confessor and daughter of Earl Godwin”[193]. Bannister does not cite the corresponding primary source, but this must be Domesday Book for Middlesex which states that "Harold the son of Earl Ralph, of whom Queen Edith had the custody together with the manor on the day on which King Edward was alive and dead" had held “Ebury” before the conquest[194]. Freeman states that "Harold the son of Ralph" is named in Domesday in Gloucestershire, Worcester, Warwickshire and Middlesex[195]. Domesday Book records that "Harold son of Earl Ralph holds Sudeley of the king. Ralph his father held it...[and] Toddington" in Gloucestershire[196]. Lord of Ewias, Herefordshire after 1086: Bannister comments that “exactly how or when Harold became possessed of this Ewias land it is not possible to explain”[197]. A manuscript which lists donations to Gloucester St Peter includes a record of the donation in 1100 by “Haraldus dominus de Ewyas” and the later confirmation by “Robertus” of "donum Haraldi patris sui"[198].

SOURCES

  • [181] Florence of Worcester 1057, pp. 159-60.
  • [182] Orderic Vitalis, Vol. IV, Book VII, p. 77.
  • [183] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157.
  • [184] Guérard, M. (ed.) (1840) Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Père de Chartres (Paris) (“Chartres Saint-Père”), Vol. I, Cap. XLVI, p. 173.
  • [185] Stevenson, J. (trans.) (1855) The Historical Works of Simeon of Durham (London) (“Simeon of Durham”), Vol. I, p. 535.
  • [186] Garmonsway, G. N. (trans) (1972) The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (Dent) D, 1052 [1051].
  • [187] Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, E, 1052.
  • [188] Florence of Worcester 1055, p. 157.
  • [189] Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, C, D, 1055.
  • [190] Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, D, 1057.
  • [191] Domesday Translation, Buckinghamshire, XVI, pp. 407-8.
  • [192] Bannister, A. T. (1902) The History of Ewias Harold (Hereford), p. 20.
  • [193] Bannister (1902), p. 20.
  • [194] Domesday Translation, Middlesex, IX, Ossulstone Hundred, p. 365.
  • [195] Freeman, E. A. (1877) The History of the Norman Conquest of England, its causes and its results 3rd Edn. (Oxford), Vol. II, Appendix, Note LL, p. 683, citing Domesday, 129 b, 169, 177, 244.
  • [196] Domesday Translation, Gloucestershire, LXI, p. 468.
  • [197] Bannister (1902), p. 21.
  • [198] Dugdale Monasticon I, Gloucester Monastery, XIII, p. 546.

From the English Wikipedia page on Ralph the Timid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Timid

Ralph the Timid, also known as Ralf of Mantes, was probably brought to England as part of the Confessor's entourage in 1041. He was created the Earl of Hereford in 1051/52[1] until his death in 1057. He was the son of Drogo of Mantes, Count of the Vexin, and Goda of England, daughter of King Ethelred the Unready of England and Emma of Normandy. Thus, he was a nephew of the English Saxon King Edward the Confessor, who placed him in command of the Earldom of Herefordshire. He himself married a woman named Gytha.

He placed Normans in positions of authority beneath him in Hereford and these men immediately began constructing castles, a new architectural feature in the English landscape.

When Godwin, Earl of Wessex, returned from exile in 1052, there was almost war between the English Saxons and the Normans, but it was prevented and many Normans had to flee the country. Edward the Confessor intervened on Ralph's behalf, for he loved him dearly. Godwin made peace with his underling Ralph, but died on September 14, 1053. In that year, Ralph became Earl in his own right and held the counties of Gloucestershire and Oxfordshire as well.

In 1055, Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, King of Gwynedd (and later all Wales), invaded Ralph's lands in Hereford along with the exiled Earl Ælfgār. Arming all his men as Norman knights, they sallied forth from his seat at Hereford Castle and were soundly defeated on October 24, 1055. Gruffydd ap Llywelyn took Hereford and destroyed the new castle.

Ralph was disgraced and he died two years later in 1057, never having recovered from the shock of loss or the ignominy of his defeat: he was ever after called the Timid, less for actual cowardice as for his trust in armoured cavalry over the traditional Anglo-Saxon war form.

His son Harold, became a ward of the royal court. Although a nephew of King Edward, Ralph would never have secured enough Witan votes to become a candidate for the monarchy.[2]

After the death of Ralph, Herefordshire was added to Harold Godwinson's Earldom of Wessex[3], possibly only to be held until Ralph's son Harold was old enough to rule it himself.[4]

Notes

[1]^ Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, 1052, mentions Ralph as Earl. The appointment would have been 1051 after Swegen's exile or early 1052.

[2]^ Wood, 34.

[3]^ DeVries, The Norwegian Invasion of England in 1066, p. 140.

[4]^ Frank Barlow, The Godwins, p. 83

References

Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.

Hynde, Thomas (ed.) (1995). The Domesday Book: England's History Then and Now.. DeVries, Kelly (1999). The Norwegian Invasion of England in 1066. Boydell Press. pp. 108–114. ISBN 1-84383-027-2. O'Brien, Harriet (2005). Queen Emma and the Vikings. London: Bloomsbury. pp. 223–224.

Barlow, Frank (2002). The Godwins.


Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley1

b. circa 1030, d. 1057

Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley|b. c 1030\nd. 1057|p344.htm#i8466|Dreux, comte d'Amiens|b. c 974\nd. 1035|p339.htm#i8468|Godgifu, Princess of the English|b. 1003\nd. 1055|p344.htm#i8469|Gautier II "the White", comte de Vexin, Valois, et Amiens|b. c 944\nd. 1027|p337.htm#i8470|Adèle de Senlis|b. c 944|p64.htm#i8471|Æthelred II "the Unready", King of the English|b. c 966\nd. 23 Apr 1016|p335.htm#i5402|Emma Regina|b. c 962\nd. 6 Mar 1052|p343.htm#i7266|

Father Dreux, comte d'Amiens2,3,4 b. circa 974, d. 1035

Mother Godgifu, Princess of the English2,3,4 b. 1003, d. 1055

Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley was born circa 1030. He was the son of Dreux, comte d'Amiens and Godgifu, Princess of the English.2,3,4 Earl of Hereford at Welsh Marches, England, between 1053 and 1057.5,4 Earl of Hereford Ralph "the Timid" de Sudeley was disgraced for cowardice against the Welsh in 1055.5 He died in 1057.3

Family

Child

  • Harold, Lord of Sudeley and Ewyas Harold+ b. b 1057, d. a 1115

Citations

1. [S206] With additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. and assisted by David Faris Frederick Lewis Weis, Weis: AR 7th ed., 235-21.

2. [S269] C. W. Previté-Orton sCMH I, pg. 382.

3. [S1075] Translated and edited by Michael Swanton, ASC+, pg. 288.

4. [S215] Revised by others later George Edward Cokayne CP, XI:App. D, pg. 110.

5. [S643] E.Domesday, online http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/book.html


Ralph the Timid was a loved nephew to the English Saxon King Edward the Confessor who placed him in command of the Earldom of Herfordshire.

Ralph placed Normans in positions of authority beneath him in Hereford and these men immediately began constructing castles, a new architectural feature in the English landscape.

In 1055 King of Gwynedd (and later all Wales) invaded Ralphs lands and defeated Ralph, destroying the new castle and taking Hereford. Ralph never recovered from the shock of loss of the ignominy of his defeat. He was after called the Timid for his trust in armoured cavalry over the traditional Anglo-Saxon war form.


From his mother, Rudolph was created Earl of Hereford by his uncle Eadward the Confessor. Of which the earldom was deproved of his son in the reign of William the Conqueror. In the year 1051 he was admiral of 50 ships of the king's navy.


From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_487.htm

TRACY ancestor list of Leona Ferrell ORR: Rudolf (Ralph) de Mantes was Lord of the Manor of Sudeley and Toddington. His uncle, King Edward the Confessor, made him Earl of Hereford. He died 21 Dec 1057 and is buried in Petersborough. Married Gethe.

ANCESTRAL ROOTS OF CERTAIN AMERICAN COLONISTS, F. L. Weis, Edition 7: p 201 - Ralph de SUDELEY of Sudeley and Toddington,. co. Gloucester, and Chivers Coton, co. Warwick, married Getha, died 21 Dec 1057

References: [AR7],[PlantagenetA],[Paget1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_the_Staller


Notes, George S Brewer. cr. Earl of Hartford by his uncle, Edward the Confessor

view all 14

Ralph I "the Timid" de Mantes, earl of Hereford's Timeline

1026
1026
Mantes (Present Mantes-la-Jolie), Pays de France (Present Region Ile-de-France), France
1042
1042
Age 16
Of, , Brittany, France
1057
December 21, 1057
Age 31
England, (Present UK)
1057
Age 31
Hertfordshire, England, United Kingdom
????
????
????
Toddington, Gloucestershire, England
????
????