William de Saye, III (II)

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William de Saye, III (II)

Birthplace: Kimbolton, Norfolk, England
Death: Died in Kimbolton,St Neots,Huntingdonshire,England
Immediate Family:

Son of William de Saye, II and Beatrice de Mandeville
Husband of unknown de Saye
Father of Maud de Saye and Beatrice, Heiress of Mandeville and Essex
Brother of Geoffrey (II) de Saye, Lord of West Greenwich I
Half brother of Richard Talbot, II

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About William de Saye, III (II)


GEOFFREY de Say (c. 1135 - c.1213). He had seizin of the inheritance of his first cousin William de Mandeville Earl of Essex, in right of his mother, until it passed to Geoffrey FitzPiers, the husband of his niece, who was the senior claimant. m firstly as her second husband, ALICE Maminot, m secondly ALICE de Vere, daughter of AUBREY de Vere Earl of Oxford & his third wife Agnes de Essex. Geoffrey & his second wife had two children: William and Geoffrey

i) WILLIAM de Say (-before 1 Jan 1198). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. m AUFRICA, illegitimate daughter of WILLIAM “the Lion” King of Scotland & his mistress ---. The proofs relating to the claim to the Scottish throne in 1291 made by "Rogeri de Mundeville" name "Austrid" as one of the daughters of King William, adding that she married "in Ulvester cuidam Willo de Say"[790]. William & his wife had one child:

(a) WILLIAM de Say . The proofs relating to the claim to the Scottish throne in 1291 made by "Rogeri de Mundeville" name "Willelmus" as the son of "Willo de Say" and his wife "Austrid"[791]. m ---. The name of William´s wife is not known. William & his wife had one child: William

Geoffry [Geoffrey],second son of William de Say; he possessed this place in her right, and dying about the 16th year of king John, was succeeded by Geoffry [Geoffrey] his son, who was one of the Recognitores Magnæ Assisæ, in the 2d year of the fame reign, at the latter end of which he joined the confederate barons, and his lands were seized into the king's hands; after whose death they were however restored to him. He died in Gascoigne in the 14th year of king Henry III. leaving by Alice his wife, one of the daughters and coheirs of John de Casyneto, or Cheney, one son, William de Say, who succeeded him in this manor. In the 44th year of that reign he was constituted governor of Rochester castle, and died in the 56th year of it, being then possessed of this manor held of the king in capite by barony. (fn. 1)

William de Say, his son, also died possessed of it in the 23d year of king Edward I. leaving Geoffry [Geoffrey], his son and heir; the ward ship of whom was obtained by William de Leyborne, whose daughter, Idonea, he afterwards married. In the 7th year of king Edward II.he was summoned to parliament, but in the 15th of that reign he died, being then possessed of this manor, held in capite, as parcel of the barony of Maminot, and leaving by Idonea his wife, who survived him, Geoffry [Geoffrey], his son and heir, (fn. 2) who making proof of his age in the 19th of Edward II. had possession granted of his lands,and was first summoned to parliament in the first year of king Edward III. after which, in the 8th year of that reign, he had a view of frank-pledge here, having that year obtained the king's charter for free-warren in all his demesne lands within this lordship of Cowdham,among others, with view of frank-pledge and divers other privileges. In the 10th year of Edward III. he was constituted admiral of all the king's fleet, from the river of Thames westward; in which service, besides himself, then a banneret, he had of his retinue four knights, twenty men at arms, and three archers. (fn. 3) In the 27th year of that reign he was again summoned to parliament, and next year he is named, by the title of Geoffry [Geoffrey],de Saye, lord of Codham, among the peers of the realm. (fn. 4) He died in the 33d year of that reign,leaving by Maud his wife, daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick, William de Say, his son and heir, (fn. 5) and three daughters who will be farther mentioned.

William de Say, the son, received summons to parliament in the 37th year of king Edward III. and died in the 49th of that reign, as appears by the inquisition then taken; by which he was found to die possessed of this manor, holden in capite by knights service, but how much was uncertain. He left John his son and heir, who died in ward to the king, in the 6th year of king Richard II. and a daughter Elizabeth, who, upon her brother's death, became his heir, and possessed this manor. She married first John de Fallesley, afterwards knighted, who had possession granted of the lands of her inheritance; but he dying, without issue by her soon after, she married Sir William Heron, who possessed the manor of Codham, and was lord Say in her right. (fn. 6) In the 19th year of Richard II. he, together with her by the name of Elizabeth lady Say, levied a fine of it to the use of them and the heirs male of their bodies, remainder to her own right heirs; four years after which she died, s. p. upon which this manor came to Sir William Heron in her right, and he died possessed of it anthem 6th year of king Henry IV. s. p. likewise, all which was found by inquisition then taken, and farther,that this manor was held in capite, and that there were sixty-six acres of land at Bedrede and land in North and South Berdenne, &c. and that there was a park there,and two leets in a year, and divers rents of assize, and that after Sir William Heron's death, who possessed that manor for his life, it came by the above fine to her heirs, viz. Sir William de Clinton, grandson of Idonea,eldest sister of William de Say last mentioned; Mary,wife of Otho de Worthington, and Matilda her sister,daughters of Thomas de Aldon and Elizabeth his wife, the next sister of the said William and Roger de Fiennes, grandson of William de Fiennes and Joane his wife, the third sister of the said William de Say. On the partition of their inheritance this manor was allotted to Roger de Fiennes, who accordingly took possession of it. He was descended from that John de Fiennes,who was one of the chief favourites [favorite’s] of William the Conqueror, who made him constable of Dover-castle,and warden of the cinque ports. Roger de Fienes before mentioned, bore for his arms, Azure, three lions rampant or. He obtained licence [license] of king Henry VI. to embattle his mansion at Hurstmonceaux, in Sussex,which he rebuilt in a most magnificent manner, and greatly enlarged his park there (fn. 7) He left two sons,Richard and Robert, the former of whom was afterwards knighted, and having married Joane, one of the daughters, and at length sole heir of Sir Thomas Dacre, eldest son and heir of Thomas Dacre lord Dacre,he was, on that account, in the 37th year of king Henry VI. by letters patent, declared lord Dacre, and a baron of this realm, and to enjoy all pre-eminence belonging to that degree, and the next year he had summons to parliament accordingly. (fn. 8)

From: 'Parishes: Cowdham', The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 2 (1797), pp. 60-78 compid=62801 Date accessed: 26 October 2012.

WILLIAM DE SAY II, 1st son and heir, first appears as a party to the confirmation by his father of Hugh de Beauchamp's grant to St. Neot's, perhaps towards the end of 1144. Between 1150 and 1160 he entered into an agreement with the monks of Ramsey to grant them rents in Norfolk and elsewhere, his mother Beatrice assenting. He paid scutage in 1161-62 under Cambs and Hunts. In 1166 he returned his Carta under Hunts. He accounted in 1167-68 under Hunts for 34 s. in respect of the aid to marry the King's daughter, and, about 1175 was witness to a charter in favour of Buckland Priory. The name and parentage of his wife are unknown. He died s.p.m. shortly before 1 August 1177. [Complete Peerage XI:465, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

William d. v. p., leaving two daus., viz., Beatrix, who m. Geoffrey FitzPiers, and Maud, m. to William de Bocland. [Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 476, Saye, or Say, Barons Saye]


Phillips, Weber, Kirk and Staggs Families of the Pacific Northwest by Jim Weber S119 Title: Type: Ancestral File Number Abbreviation: Type: Ancestral File Number S2 Title: Pedigree Resource File CD 49 Abbreviation: Pedigree Resource File CD 49 Publication: (Salt Lake City, UT: Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 2002) Source: S3 Title: Ancestral File (TM) Abbreviation: Ancestral File (TM) Author: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day SAINTS Publication: June 1998 (c), data as of 5 JAN 1998 Repository: #R1 Repository: R1 Name: Unknown S4 Title: hofundssonAnces.ged Abbreviation: hofundssonAnces.ged Repository: #R1 This person was created through the import of Rodney Timbrook Ancestors and Relatives_2010-09-10.ged on 10 September 2010, Acrossthepond.ged on 21 February 2011, My Family File.ged on Aug 31, 2011 by Jane Entwisle, Stough Family Tree.ged on Nov 2, 2011 by Lindsay Coleman, FAMILY 6162011.GED on Jun 20, 2011 by Michael Stephenson, heinakuu2011-6.ged on Jul 5, 2011 by Johanna Amnelin.


Note: @N771@ @N771@ NOTE Probably a descendant of William de Say, fl 1098, and Agnes, daughter of Hugh de Grandmesnil. William married Beatrice, the divorced wife of Hugh Talbot. He was an ally of Geoffrey Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex, in a revolt with Hugh Bigod against King Stephen.

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William de Saye, III (II)'s Timeline

Kimbolton, Norfolk, England
Age 22
Kimbolton, Huntingdonshire, England
Age 36
Kimbolton, St Neots, Huntingdonshire, England
August 1, 1177
Age 44
Kimbolton,St Neots,Huntingdonshire,England
November 5, 1932
Age 44
March 1, 1934
Age 44
November 18, 1939
Age 44
June 17, 1992
Age 44
September 30, 1992
Age 44