About Ly-sze Si Zhou 周 (född Chou)
This profile is cut from King You of Zhou.
For a more clearly formatted presentation, go to the page from which the overview was copied and then pasted at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I30600
- ID: I30600
- Name: Attila "Scourge of God" the HUN , King of Huns 1 2
- Sex: M
- Birth: ABT 400 in Romania
- Death: 453 in Hungary 1 2
- Event: Ruled 437-453 1
Note: Below are several versions (all of which are probably "legendary" & unproven) of a descent from Attila the Hun, I personally prefer the 1st one by David Hughes.
David Hughes, in a post to SGM, 18 Feb 2003, gives three different descents from Attilla the Hun (the Tsars of Bulgaria, The Kings of Hungary, and Charlemagne); all three are "rumoured" to have descents, according to several postings on SGM, but David gives the most reasonable-seeming full descents (unfortunately David does not indicate his sources, caveat emptor):
From: david hughes (RdavidH218 AT Aol.com) Subject: Re: Attila the Hun Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 2003-02-18 10:11:27 PST
I am curious about the sudden interest in Attila The Hun & the genealogy of his house. . . for what it is worth here are my notes on the subject for consideration:
x. Donaton, King of Huns , enters Europe, circa AD 360, issue, three sons: a. Basiq, King of Huns , d c 370 b. Balamber, King of Huns , attacks Byzantine empire, d 390 c. Uldin (Uldes), King of Huns  390-411
the two sons of Uldin  (above) were a. Karaton (Charaton), King of Huns  411-?, the father of Octar, King of Huns  b. Kuridak
the two sons of Prince Kuridak (above) were a. Rugila, King of Huns  ?-433 b. Mundzuk
the two sons of Prince Mundzuk (above) were a. Bleda, King of Huns  433-437 b. ATTILA
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x. ATTILA "THE HUN" & "The Scourge", King of Huns  437-453 had several wives: =1 Arykan; =2 Helche (Kreka); =3 Kriemhilt; =4 Ildiko (Hildiko); =5 Gundrun [note: a German myth says that his Burgundian wife, Gundrun, murdered her twin sons, Erpe & Eiti, begotten by him, and served their hearts for Attila to eat]
issue: a. Scharpfe, murdered 453 b. Ortelipe, murdered 453 [note: the sons of ATTILA quarreled after his death over the chieftainship, during which, Ardaric, the Gepidae king, rallied the Germans against their Hunnish masters and utterly defeated the Huns at the Battle of Nedao, 456, after which the remnant of the Huns gathered around the sons & grandsons of Attila "the Hun", creating several groups, of which some remained in Germany and Central Europe while others retreated to Scythia-Minor and became the Magyars, Bulgars, & Mongols] c. Ellak, King of Huns  453-456 [possibly the father of Aella of Sussex & Alesa of Wessex] d. Tuldila, King of Huns  456-7 e. Dengizec, King of Huns  457-469, the father of Oulibus (d469) f. Sengilac, the father of Sunigila (daughter), wife of Odovacar, a Teutonic chieftain, conquered the Roman Empire & became King of Italy 476-493 g. Emnetzur h. Ultzindur i. Elpfrat j. Tingiz k. Bel-Kermek (475), father of Djurash "Masgut" (498/499), father of Tatra (Baltavar) (550s), father of Boyan-Chelbir (d590), father of Tubdjak, King of Magna-Bulgaria (620), father of (a) Bu-Yurgan (Organas) & (b) Alburi (d632), father of Kubrat, 1st King of Bulgaria 632-651 [note: Kubrat is called the "son" of Organus in one source, and called his "nephew" in another source, as the son of his brother, Alburi] l. Ernak [called Attila's "youngest son"], King of Huns  469-476 m. Escam (Ascama) (daughter), wife of Ardaric, a Gepidae chief/king
issue of Ernak  (above) were a. Gordas, King of Huns  493-527 b. Dullo (Dubla) c. Zeliorbes, King of Huns  530s, wars vs. Justinian The Great d. Chaba (Chola) (530), father of Edus (Elus) (560), father of Kadiha (590), father of Chazew (620), father of Kulchug (650), father of Edur (680), father of Vegerus (Vegecus) (710), father of Elendus (740), father of Avarius (770), father of Venedobel (800), father of Ogyek (830), father of Almos (860), father of Arpad, 1st King of Hungary 896-907 e. Gheism (d535), the father of Mundio (d535)
issue of Prince Dullo (Dubla) (above) was a. Avarius, King of Huns  (mid-500s), accepted Pannonia [Hungary] from Lombard King Albion [who invaded Italy] & re-conquered Germany 568
issue of Avarius  (above) were a. Chaganus, last King of Huns , invaded Thrace 593; wasted the Balkans 611; the father of two sons, who were executed by Priscus in AD 601; led remnant of Huns to Scythia-Minor b. Schzarus
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note: the descent-line from Attila The Hun to Charlemagne posted recently on the net is incorrect, however, the descent can be made through the wife of Pepin of Landen rather than through his mother, which then would be:
00. Attila The Hun (d453) 01. Escam (Ascama) = Ardaric, Gepidae-King of Germany (d476) 02. Elemund (d493/515) 03. Austrisa = Waccho, Lombard-King of Italy (d540) 04. Walderade =1 Theudebald, King of France 548-555 [note: she =2 Clothaire I of France; & =3 Garibald I of Bavaria] 05. Grimoalde, Duke of Aquitaine (d599) = Itite (d612), daughter of Severus, a duke 06. Itte (Idoberge) (d652) = Pepin [I] of Landen (d639) 07. Begga (d694) = Ansgise (d685) 08. Pepin [II] of Heristal (d714) =2 Aupais 09. Charles "Martel", Duke of France 737-741 =1 Rotrude 10. Pepin "Le Korte", King of France 751-768 = Bertha "The White-Lady" 11. Charlemagne
The following post, 23 May 1998, by William Reitwiesner, gives a pedigree back to Atilla the Hun & and way past him to the Chou dynasty in China! Undoubtedly it is not super accurate and debatable whether it is even likely (some on SGM did think it likely that the later Magyar rulers of Hungary may have had a tie to Attila, others not):
From: William Addams Reitwiesner (wrei AT erols.com) Subject: Re: Magyar kings to Attila the Hun Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 1998/05/23
doug AT dholmes.com (Doug Holmes) wrote: > >Can anyone describe this supposed connection via the Magyar kings to >Attila? I've never seen such an attempt.
It's a howl. The only version I've seen was in *Die Ahnen von Irene Prinzessin zu Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg*, which was typed by a Dr. Schilling in 1947 in Glücksburg and is retained in the archives there. The line is on pp. 206-217, and it doesn't just stop at Attila. It goes like this (most recent people first and then going backwards, not translated from the German):
Elisabeth die Heilige (+1231) m 1221 Ludwig VI Landgraf von Thüringen Andreas II, König von Ungarn, 1205-1235 Bela III, ungarischer König, reg 1173-1196 Geysa III, König von Ungarn, 1141-1161 Bela II der Blinde, König von Ungarn, reg 1131-1141 Almos +1129 Ladislaus I der Heilige, König von Ungarn, reg 1077-1095 Bela I, König von Ungarn, reg 1060-1063 Ladislaus der Kahle, ungarischer Prinz, * nach 975 Michael, madjarischer Fürst, * um 950 Toxus, madjarischer Fürst, reg 920-nach 955, * um 900 Zultan III, madjarischer Fürst, * um 870 Arpad, madjarischer Fürst, reg 890-907 Almos II, hunnischer Fürst Elend Veget Veger Edur II Sultan II Almos II Kulchug Chazew Kadiha Edus I Chaba, hunnischer Fürst Attila (gennant Godegisil), hunnischer grosschan, starb 453 Bendekuz gennant Mundiuch, Fürst der Hunnen Turda, Fürst der Hunnen Szemen Ethei Oposch Kadcha Berend Zultan I Bulchu Bolug Zemtur Zamur Leel Zevent Kulche Ompud Mirka Mike Beztur (Baktur), Grosschan der Hunnen, reg 209-174 v.Zw. Budli Chamad Bukem Bondefard Tarkens Othmar Kadar Biler Kear Kave Kaled Dama Bor, Herrscher der Hunnen
Bor's wife, and mother of Dama, is given as Ly-sze, daughter of the Chinese Emperor Yu-Wang (reigned 781-771 v.Zw. -- note that "v.Zw." means "B.C."). Yu-Wang was an Emperor of the Chou dynasty. The line back from Ly-sze is given by Schilling as follows:
Ly-sze, Kaiserliche prinzessin von China aus der dynastie Tschou Yu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 781-771 v.Zw. Hsüan-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 827-782 v.Zw. Li-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 878-827 v.Zw. Tscheng, kaiserlicher prinz von China Tschi-fah, kaiserlicher prinz von China Mu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1001-957 v.Zw. Tung, Chinesischer Prinzregent Kang-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1078-1052 v.Zw. Tscheng-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1115-1078 v.Zw. (Fah-)Wu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1135-1115 v.Zw., Begründer der Dritten Dynastie: Tschou (Tschang-)Wen-wang, König von Tschou und Tschin, reg 1168-1135 v.Zw. (Tscheng-)I-wang, Grosskönig von Tschou, reg 1195-1168 v.Zw. Li-wah, Königlicher Prinz der Tschou und Tschin, u 1200 v.Zw. Kilik, Herzog von Tschou Tschan-fu, Herzog von Tschou Tan-fu, Herzog von Tschou, machte sich 1327 v.Zw.
And there Schilling stops, though not without the helpful information that Tan-fu is in the 103rd generation back from Princess Irene, and that he is her ancestor number 11,180,164,869,262,022,086,263,635,968 (using the standard Kekule method of ancestor numbering).
In case anybody is gasping in shock or horror, I'm not endorsing any of this descent (at least not before Almos, d. 1129), I'm just reporting what I've found. I didn't notice if Schilling said where he found the descent.
William Addams Reitwiesner wrei AT erols.com
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
The following gives two brief, undoubtedly legendary, lines from Attila the Hun.
From: Henry Soszynski (zzhsoszy AT uq.net.au) Subject: Re: Atilla the Hun Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 2003-01-22 14:49:48 PST
AFAIK There are no verifiable descents from A the H, nowever that's not going to stop me posting the following.
Attila->Irnac->[?generation]->Mugel->Chinial +c555->Zabergan->[?generation]->Kubrat +642 IIRC (this is the line of the Kutrigur Khans) and Kubrat was the ancestor of some of the early rulers of Bulgaria, many question marks and dotted lines).
Attila->Chaba->Edus->Vegecus->Elendus->Almus->Ugyck->Almos->Arpad (founder of the Arpad dynasty of Hungary)
Henry INDIAN PRINCELY STATES
HintsAncestry Hints for Attila "Scourge of God" the HUN , King of Huns
1 possible matches found on Ancestry.com Ancestry.com
Father: Mundzuk Prince of the HUNS b: ABT 377 in Romania
Marriage 1 Gundrun a BURGUNDIAN b: ABT 420 in France
Married: in 5th wife 1
Has Children Ernak King of HUNS b: ABT 445 in Hungary
Marriage 2 Arykan b: ABT 400 in Romania
Married: in 1st wife 1
Marriage 3 Helche (Kreka) b: ABT 405 in Romania
Married: in 2nd wife 1
Marriage 4 Ildiko (Hildiko) b: ABT 415 in Romania
Married: in 4th wife 1
Has Children Escam (Ascama) Princess of the HUNS b: ABT 440 in Hungary
Marriage 5 Kriemhilt b: ABT 410 in Romania
Married: in 3rd wife 1
Has Children Bel-Kermek Prince of the HUNS b: ABT 430 in Hungary
Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com Page: David Hughes, 18 Feb 2003 Title: Encyclopedia Britannica, Treatise on Page: Attila