John Cherry, Sr. - Ireland or England?

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Sunday, February 7, 2021
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I believe it's misleading to show that this family came from England when it is highly disputed and unproven.

I'm a Cherry descendant and have been collaborating for weeks with a close DNA cousin in Ireland, trying to identify our common ancestors. One of our mutual matches on My Heritage is also a Cherry descendant and has generations of her family traced back to Northern Ireland.

As this comment on Wiki points out, Irish immigrants came on ships from England. But that doesn't mean they were 'from' England in the literal sense . And in the About section, it's very interesting that one descendant made a trip to England to find the Cherry familly there and found nothing.

"There is no evidence that he was from England,2 although he apparently sailed from England (as did many of the Irish coming to America). (Young 3-5). [1]"

I'm trying to figure out how this line that is my direct line is connected to my DNA mutually matching cousin's Cherry line from Ireland. Everything I've seen so far in my Cherry research shows them having come from Ireland. Now, farther back they may well have gone to Ireland generations back from England, but I need to make the connection from America to Ireland that DNA is showing me.

My cousin in Ireland sent me this link. Sadly, they have few surviving documents in Ireland for genealogy purposes, but I set my search as far back as their app allows and many people with the Cherry surname show up:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMore...=

Again, everything points to Ireland...

I'm going to be working on my Cherry DNA matches for some time to come, it appears. Most of my matches don't have a tree or enough in their tree to be useful.

I did just find this match on My Heritage. A Cherry in California. His family immigrated from Scotland straight to California But look where they were from originallY:

James Cherry

1841–1917

BIRTH 23 MAR 1841 • Killyleagh, Down, Northern Ireland

DEATH 26 SEP 1917 • 48 Murano St Glasgow

Again, just like my DNA match on Ancestry, it goes back to Northern Ireland.

Debbie Gambrell Are you saying he’s not the child of Thomas Cherry, of Maidenhead & Bray and Ellen Cherry? That’s what the curator note says, but people keep insisting he was born in Berkshire, England. Who was his wife? Was there more than one John Cherry? I’ll disconnect but there really needs to be more biography or he’ll just come right beck as English, as he’s done many times before.

I only started working on my DNA matches tonight, Erica, so I can't answer all those things at this time. I read the About section and the Wiki and they both indicate it's unlikely he was English.

From what I've seen, his wife was Elizabeth Faithful, but that connection is as far as I've gotten so far where there is consistency to that point. It's from that couple forward where people are showing difference connections and geographical locations yet to be nailed down.

John seems to have been a very common name among the Cherry lines. Just like Samuel and his brother Lemuel's names have been confused, it would be easy to confuse same-name men. We see that happen quite often.

I hope I get more answers as I go. I REALLY want to find how this line connects to my Irish DNA Cherry matches.

Since there were clearly Cherry's I'm related to who were in Ireland but went to Scotland for a few generations before making it to America, it seems to be a family that didn't stay put. That's why I say they may well have come from England to Ireland, Scotland and America, no telling where all they dispersed to. But Ireland seems to be the common thread among my DNA matches.

If I find more information I can document, I'll definitely post it.

And the very reason I'm working on it from a DNA perspective is people can put incorrect info in their trees, copy and perpetuate errors...but DNA matches 'can' create a DNA trail of connections to help resolve the otherwise ify information. My best guess would be that all the Cherrys are going to be related from some distant ancestor maybe from England before they began spreading out. I'm getting Irish matches to my line. Someone else may get something totally different, depending on which branch of the lines they come from. I haven't even scratched the surface yet.

Erica, look at this...it refers specifically to Irish immigrants: "Excerpts of the Irish names from the Greer list were published in no. 6258,"

Name: John Cherry
Arrival year: 1637
Arrival Place: Virginia
Primary Immigrant: Cherry, John
Source Publication Code: 2772
Annotation: Includes 25,000 names from records of the Virginia State Land Office. Excerpts of the Irish names from the Greer list were published in no. 6258, O'Brien, Early Immigrants to Virginia....
Source Bibliography: GREER, GEORGE CABELL. Early Virginia Immigrants, 1623-1666. Richmond [Va.]: W.C. Hill Printing Co., 1912, 376p. Reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, 1978. Repr. 1982.

I 'think' one reason some have assumed John was from England was because it seems his wife Elizabeth Faithful actually was. Both immigrated to Virginia where they married. So while his line seems to be from Ireland, hers is from England. They were a 'new world marriage' from what I've seen so far.

I have been doing research since 1977, but I have not done my DNA. On the 1850 TN census it has Joel Cherry born in NC and wife Sarah born SC. I am posing: what if the census taker asked where are you from rather than where were you born. They came from NC and SC to TN but were born in Antrim, Ireland. The son Judge James Joel moved to Lawrence, Missouri. I copied pages from a book "History of Lawrence County, Missouri" printed 1917 and it states the Cherry's were of Scotch-Irish decent. In sketches of early pioneers it says Judge James Joel's parents were born in Antrim, Ireland. In the sketch of James William (great grandson of my Joel) said his great grandparents were from Antrim, Ireland. James William was alive at the time of this book. The Cherry's from Maidenhead, Bray, Berkshire had three sons to move to Ireland. I will have to look through my papers to fine out their names. Sir Francis had a son, Francis, go to Ireland but he died young with no children. Sir Francis settled Camberwell, England.

Just as a note. Anglo Irish vs Scotch Irish.

Evelyn, thanks for sharing that . It fits perfectly with what I found yesterday about some having gone from Northern Ireland to Scotland before eventually coming to America, and that's particularly interesting about the English sons who moved to Ireland. I think the Scotch-Irish share the Anglo-Irish ancestry. Going back far enough, I'm sure they all have common English ancestry since that seems to be where the migration began from.

http://www.txbobsc.com/dl/Harris-Cherry%20Book%20as%20PDF/Pt%201%20...
I don’t know if you have seen this before. This is my primary line. England to Northern Ireland then to VA. My DNA matches this line, but also a line that went from England to SC.

Missia! That is an AWESOME link! I had read on a site that someone had traced them back to France and the link you provided just has 'everything'! I can't wait to go through all of it. Thank you sooo much for sharing this!

I've satisfied myself that my earliest known, John, immigrated from Ireland to VA and from there my line kept moving to NC and SC and then it becomes a female line married to my Hodges that ended up in Mississippi. I can't find anything on my John before he immigrated, just DNA matches to cousins whose lines have roots in Ireland. Maybe I'll find more information in that document you shared. :)

I can't find where John was married to Frances Tuberville, only to Elizabeth Faithful. I'm thinking this Frances is this one:

Frances Cherry (Tuberville)

She was married to Thomas Cherry though, not John.

Does anyone have any info on John having more than one wife? If not, I think this extra Frances Tuberville should be disconnected. There are no children connected to her.

Sorry, that link didn't work: Frances Cherry

Also, I just realized it's just one Frances, not two. Her profile is linked as a wife to this John and also to this Thomas:

Thomas Cherry

I think she was just Thomas' wife.

Done.

Thanks, Erica.

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