Suggestion: lack of a name in Latin letters should be considered an "inconsistency"

Started by Dimitri Vulis on Saturday, January 15, 2022
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Many profiles on Geni have the person's name only in Russian or Hebrew or Persian or some other language whose script is totally unreadable to most Geni users.

I suggest that if a profile does not contain a name in one of the languaged that use Latin alphabet (English, Spanish, French, German, Swedish, anything), then Geni should report this lack as an "inconsistency".

Someone finding this inconsistency could just click on "Ignore", or could edit the profile and add a transliterated name, making the profile more reable for those unable to read the non-Latin script.

(Geni supports names in multiple languages. Adding a name transliterated in a new language does not delete the existing name.)

(I don't think that a name with some extension letters like German ß or Hungarian ő is a problem.)

Going ever further, it would be helpful (but would require even more programming) if the user could click a "Fix" button, and open the profile with "English" language tab added, and the name automatically transliterated, so the result could just be checked for accuracy, edited if needed, and saved.

I doubt so. Geni did a giant mistake introducing the language option for names to solve an alphabet problem, and managed to classify all names using the Cyrillic alphabet as Russian. In some countries using the Cyrillic alphabet you risk getting killed if you ever try to claim that they are Russian.

Names cannot be translated, but they can, as you say, be written using different alphabets. Only Display Name where you might include a language specific title need the language option.

In any case Geni should support multiple complete name fields and stop mixing them. A complete name field should have a classification (married, immigrant, maiden, military etc), time period and source option to document each variant.

Thank you very much for your comments! I agree that Geni could have an even more sophisticated distinction between the semantics of "Language/Dialect" versus "Script". However the functionality that I see now is already quite good, and the issue I'm complaining about.

I can see that (as of this writing) a profile can have multiple tabs for different languages. Each language tab already has its own "Title", "Name", "Display name", and "Also known as".

I enthusiastically agree that it would also be better if Geni allowed more details in the name field, particularly allowing to specify the time periods when a particular version of the name was used. However it's a different enhancement, "orthoginal" to the language one.

For example, a profile can have "Russian", 'Ukrainian". 'Belarusan", etc tabs if desired, and each tab already contains all the name fields. Each of these languages uses a version of Cyrillic script, but has a few letters not found in the other languages version of Cyrillic (e.g. Ukrainian ґ, ї, Belarusan ў) . I'm not aware of a context where Geni emcounters a Cyrillic letter and automatically assumes that the text is in the Russian language - if it does, then it's another separate issue to be addressed.

Likewise, it's sometimes very reasonable to have separate tabs for "English" and "German" versions of the name. I definitely don't think it would have been better if the tabs were tagged with a scipt ( "Cyrillic", "Latin", etc) rather than with a language.

I'll illustrate the concrete practical issue that I am trying to address.

What %age of Geni users can read this name: Kazimir Ivanovich Kukharenok or this name R' Nathan Thumim ? (Assuming these examples don't get edited.) A very small one.

I think Geni should encourage profile maintainers to transliterate all the fields in such names (not limited the display name; although titles like "Rabbi" and suffices like "Мл"-> "jr" should get translated) by flagging the lack of a transliteration as an "inconsistency". Geni could further help by programmatically providing a "first draft" of the transliteration, that may need editing/cleanup.

(Please note that automatic transliteration is sometimes not good. A solution where Geni would transliterate names automatically without a human editor confirming and saving the result would not be as good.)

I think this would help the multiple language cause.

Thanks Erica!
(R. Thumim's profile got fixed since I posted; here is another Hebrew-only example: Chananya Feder )

I think this is a very good idea - especially the fix or ignore-option.
I merge a lot and latin versus hebrew in a merge is impossible to merge and requires translation = time consuming.

Thanks a lot Susanna.

One more tangential suggestion is for Geni to go even further and support multiple languages not only in the name and "about" notes, but also in the geographical places of birth/death/marriage, cause of death, occupation - all the text fields.

But even if we have multiple language only in the name, here are some examples of proposed WFT merges where one of the profiles does not have the name in Latin letters - it is hard for curators to verify whether they are correct.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/304269995460008317?to=6000000020... Henya Deblinger-Apel (Elyash)
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000026765594957?to=600000006... Mordecai Yechiel Luria
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000075399723843?to=600000011... Sara גלבך
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/304269709210002345?to=6000000020... Arye Dov Deblinger-Apel
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000000490389564?to=600000013... Yosef Blumenfeld
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000006166289022?to=600000007... Elyahu Hauer
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000063555401052?to=600000007...
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/5070764004030029740?to=600000012... Abraham Simcha Labin
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/3340059?to=6000000003182283099 Malka Lipshitz (Rabinowicz)
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000004233856452?to=600000011... Yocheved Gardin
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000007225142239?to=600000018... Briendel Weisberg (Landau)
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000020488290132?to=600000008... Moshe Gershon Gottlieb

You were reading My mind about geography. That’s a trickier issue to solve though - we don’t have the multi lingual fields for locations.

There are many profiles with geographical locations in Russian or Hebrew, and I wouldn't presume to "fix" them by replacing the existing data with English names. It would be better if Geni provided the ability to store more than one language, e.g.
Russian: Москва, СССР
English; Moscow, USSR
French: Moscou, URSS
(and also considered a location populated only using non-Latin-based script to be an "inconsistency", of course) .

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