Oliver "The Gross" Shepherde - "The Gross" or Le Gross?

I am not sure of the "Shepherde" part of if there is some confusion with Oliver Le Gross written about here https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol11/...

The ancient family of Le Gross, of whom an account at large may be seen in Crostwick, was enfeoffed of this manor. Sir Reginald le Gross was lord and patron in the time of King Stephen, and held of the descendants of de Beaufoe, harons of Rye.

One of the same name was living in 1247, and in 1289, and in 1313, the lordship, &c. was settled for life on Sir Reginald, remainder on Oliver his son.

In the 35th of Edward III. Alianore, late wife of Oliver le Gross, was found to have held it, and John was her son, and being a knight, presented to this church in 1375, and 1383

Oliver le Gross, Esq. presented in 1432, and by his will, dated July 1, 1439, proved 16th of March following, (fn. 2) requires to be buried in the chapel of St. James in this church; appoints William Yelverton, the King's justice of his bench, John Groos, &c. his executors; to the said John he gives the manor of Irsted, and to Rowland his 2d son, this of Sloley, and 10l. to the repair of Sloley church.

John Gross, Esq. son of Oliver, presented to this church in 1440.

Robert Ashfield, son of John Ashfield, and Amicia his wife, daughter and heir of Symon Gross, first son of Oliver, and his wife, convey their right herein to Edward Jenney, in the 18th of Edward IV. and at this time there seems to be a moiety of this manor in the Asbfields.

¶In 1522, Sir Edmund Jenney died seised of it, leaving it to Francis his grandson and heir, which Francis and Margaret his wife, convey a moiety of the manor of Sloley, 5 messuages, a watermill, 300 acres of land, 12 of meadow 40 of pasture, 5 of wood, 100 of heath, 50 of marsh, and 100s rent here, and in other towns, to John Gross, who in the first of Edward VI. with Elizabeth his wife, sold it to Miles Gross with the advowson.

In the Grosses it continued (as in Crostwick) till conveyed to the Walpoles Earls of Orford, where it remains.

Rainald, son of Ivo, had a small fee held of him by Roger, 20 acres which Scheit held in the demeans of Scothow at the survey, one villain belonged to it, and it was valued in Scothow. (fn. 3)

I find no farther account of this, and so was united (as I take it) to the Le Gross fee.

The tenths were 5l. The temporalities of Bromholm priory were 12s. and of St. Bennet's abbey 17s. 10d. ob. and for these 13s. 4d. were deducted out of the said tenths.

The Church was dedicated to St. Bartholomew, valued in the reign of Edward I. at 9 marks, and was a rectory. Sir Reginald le Gross was then patron. The rector had a manse and 16 acres. Peter-pence 12d. The present valor is 5l. 6s. 8d. and is discharged.

The church has a nave, and 2 isles covered with lead, and the chancel with reed, and a tower with 3 bells.

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I think we need to look at Crostwick. Or at least if the Olivers are the same.

Here is the Crostwick history:

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol11/...

Too much to copy and paste but worth a read. I think there is a lot that needs to be sourced with these profiles. I can't find a son Roberto.

Kristina SHEPARD I cannot determine what line of "Roberto's you must descend from, but mine is "Abraham." I do know, but it seems that a lot of the profiles including Oliver's need more sourcing.

Right now, he may be a "Le Gross" or that may just be a nickname given to him. Right now, my line goes up to Edmund Shepherd on wikitree and he shows unknown parents. That is this person on Geni Edmund Shepard, of Redgrave

Not a real source on Edmund's profile other that Find a Grave info. I am really skeptical of anything beyond Edmund and maybe him at this point. If you have some information to add, please post it as we can work to make this line better, for sure.

I am also going to direct your other discussion to this one so we can keep comments together since they are about Oliver and those lines.

From

Note at end of profile on Edmund Shepherd

WARNING PARENTS UNKNOWN

=== END of the Line ===

Hyde, Myrtle Stevens. The Shepard Ancestry of Elizabeth Jasper, Wife of Samuel1 Morse of Dedham and Medfield, Mass. The American Genealogist (The American Genealogist, Barrington, RI, 1987) 62:235

https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/american-genealogist-th...

1 EDMUND C SHEPARD was born say 1475 and died probably at Redgrave, co. Suffolk, England, between 22 Jan. 1523[/4] and 1 March 1523[/4], when his will was executed and proved. He married AGNES or ANNES -----, who died, probably at Redgrave, between 16 Feb. 1539[/40] and 16 March 1539[/40], the dates of her will and probate. In his will, he named his wife, three sons, and four daughters. Among them he divided his lands, his horses, cows, and sheep, and also the produce from his fields . Additionally, he provided for the customary tithes, sermons, and feasts expected of a prosperous man. Edmund's widow Agnes survived him for 16 years and managed the family property well, for she bequeathed sheep, cattle , and land. She also specified which family members should have household items and clothing.

Children (SHEPARD) of Edmundc and Agnes(-----), order uncertain, here based upon the will of Edmund:

i JOHN B b. say 1501; d, bet. 19 June 1529 and 5 July 1529, the dates that his will was executed and proved; m. ELIZABETH John was named in the will of his father (Jan. 1523[/4]) . His own will names his wife Elizabeth, daughter Agnes, and son John. as well as his brother Robert Shepperd and his brother-in-law Edmund "Grige."

ii THOMAS b. say 1503; m. ALICE-----. He was named in the will of his father (Jan. 1523(/4]), and both he and his wife Alice were named in the will of his mother (Feb. 1539[/40]).

2 111 ROBERT b. say 1505; named in the wills of his father (Jan. 1523[/4]) and mother (Feb. 1539[/40]).

iv MARGARET b. say 1507; named in the wills of her father (Jan. 1523[/4]) and mother (Feb. 1539[/40]). Shem. EDMUND GRYGGES, who was named in the wills of her brother John (June 1529) and her mother (Feb. 1539[/40]). Children Agnes, Rose, Katheryn, and Anne were also named in their grandmother's will.

v ELLEN b. say 1509; named in the wills of her father (Jan.
1523[/4)) and mother (Feb. 1539(/40)).

vi ANNES/AGNES b. say 1511; named in the wills of her father
(Jan. 1523(/4]) and mother (Feb. 1539(/40)). John (no
surname given), son of Agnes, was also named in his grandmother's will.

vii MARY b. say 1513; named in the will of her father (Jan.
1523(/4)) but not in that of her mother (Feb. 1539(/ 40]).

Last Changed: October 29, 2022
Roland Henry Baker III
________________________

Though at this time Family Search has parents William Marshall Shepherd and Elizabeth Van Hauser due to a SARS application. It could not be the same Abraham Shepherd who is listed in the SARS application https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/158187:2204
as he was a soldier in the American Revolution.

According to the Geni profile, Capt Abraham Shepherde was lived circa 1425-1450 and never left Cambridge. I think that the Family Search tree and the Geni tree are messed up and probably need to be cut off from >Roberto Shepherde and his unknown wife and from Oliver and his unknown wife.

I don't think there is much doubt that Agnes Shepherd needs to be sourced as right now, as it shows her birth name as "Constable" and that she married an Abraham Shepherd and they had a son Roberto Shepherde who maybe married his grandmother and could be a vampire. Seriously, that is all I could find on him.

This is a real mess, Erica Howton. Do you know anything of these lines?

Sorry, the son of Agnes Shepherd is showing up as lord william of redgrave Roberto is showing as her reputed father. Not likely that I can find, but maybe there is something somewhere.

The New England vs Southern immigrant line issues again. Makes sense, I think to have two separate ones. Now if it can just be sorted and notes made. May need MP and locking????

Erica Howton, if I can work on it, I will, but I am jammed this week and next with that "big project." It is almost over.....One day, I will be back to normal, whatever that is.

It is PEASMARSH. Not Peasmarch. LOL. I can't change where it is locked, but I did add photos of the Old Norman Church in Peasmarch on the profiles.

BTW, Sir Paul or is it Lord Paul McCartney lives there....

Yes, I will see what I can find on the Southern lines. My connections comes through those Virginia to Marion SC Smiths.

My tree to the immigrant Edmund of Redgrave

Susanne Floyd - on and off the grid
You → Harold Douglas Floyd
your father → Attelia Floyd
his mother → John Franklin Roberts
her father → Roger R. Roberts
his father → Mary Roberts
his mother → Samuel Smith, II
her father → Samuel Smith
his father → John Smith IV
his father → Ann Smith
his mother → Richard Jasper, Sr.
her father → John Jasper
his father → Rose Jasper
his mother → Robert Shepard, of Redgrave
her father → Edmund Shepard, of Redgrave
his father

Yeah, I think Jaspers are part of the Redgrave line. Thanks so much for getting that confusing mess disconnected.