PUBLIC PROFILES - ON AGAIN

@Noah Tutak
@ Curators
Please give this issue the URGENCY it deserves, and inform the people responsible to correct this situation, otherwise I intend to take the appropriate steps outside the confines of Geni, and nobody is going to benefit from it.

Daniel,

Are you threatening curators? Do I need to consult an attorney to protect myself in my volunteer work?

@Erica Howton, I may have some discrepancies with you or other curators, but I love you all for the work and effort you put into this, and I know that whatever fault there is, it is not the Curators'.
The fish stinks from the head, so my message is basically geared towards Tutak and any other paid employees who don't do what they are supposed to.
All I wanted from the curators, since there are many of you, is to pass along this URGENT appeal to Tutak and any other person who can once and for all obliterate this nuisance.

Daniel,

Your first post reads like you're threatening curators with "outside action" if we don't help you with your communication needs. Is that your intent?

@Erica Howton.
My English is not the best, and my first entry might have been interpreted the way you did, but after my clarification I was SURE that you will understand it correctly.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THE CURATORS. I LOVE YOU AND ADMIRE YOUR WORK.
No, you don't have to hire a lawyer.
Just read what I wrote once more so you understand it the way it was intended.

Daniel,

I have worked with people whose second language is English for many years, so I hope it all right with you if I point out problems with your use of English in a "public discussion" ?

The way your second post is phrased threatens outside action if volunteer curators do not act upon your request. That is strong and threatening in English.

Better to just delete the post and work on rephrase it as a request, not a demand.

Many thanks for your attention to this.

Also, if it is more comfortable for you to post in your language of origin, please feel free to do so. Several curators have multiple language skills and will be able to translate and interpret.

Hi Dani
Last Friday I had a long discussion with Gilad Jaffet, senior manager in Myheritage. Myheritage is a very similar site to Geni but they have 7 time more profiles. He told me that Geni loose money and they have 20 emoloyees only. Now ther is a big different between Geni and Myherritage: In Geni there is one big tree but in Myherritage there is a tree for each manager. If you find match with other profiles you can copy them to your tree if the other manager is agree but the other manager cannot edit your profiles. Another different is that if Geni change a profile status to "public" you can't delete it anymore and actually it is not belong to you anymore. I decided to open a private tree in Myherritage in paralele to Geni. Yesterday I created a Gedcom file and sent it to Myherritage. It takes one day to proccess it and then I expect to find new relatives.
אחרי שאצבור נסיון אדע באיזה כיוון לבחור

Daniel,
The "appropriate steps outside of Geni" should be to take your business elsewhere, I think.

I like working in a shared tree, and think that "the big tree" is the way to do genealogy in a shared context, but the way the rules on Geni are set up, as described in http://www.geni.com/help/privacy, you cannot make private profiles of distant relatives (beyond 4th cousins); if you need to do that, another site may be better for you.

Daniel,
I don't think you have a language problem. Both here and in the past, you make rather extreme claims, don't actually listen to the responses and explanations people give, and then when finally called on the bull-shit you insist on repeating, you back down and say "I didn't mean it".

You don't have a language problem at all. More of an attitude problem. If that is indeed you in your profile photo, then it's a shame someone your age can still act so immaturely. I'm just about ready to label you as an Internet Troll ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ) and ignore you. You might notice that none of the thousands of other Geni users that can read this, thought it worth responding to.

Amit, my family DOES have a long time tree on Myheritage. This site is indeed for control-freak managers (and has a closed-club method, i.e. if you're not already known to the tree manager, then you'll stay outside the tree), and also any tree bigger than 250 profiles will cost you money.

Dani,
I would think by now you must have realized the agenda on Geni, the process of merging is in fact to expand the family tree, that being said and reading all the above, I must agree that you are abundantly clear in your verbiage, as is everyone else's.

While I admire your efforts on searching high and low to find relatives and add them to the tree, then you need to comprehend that the more you add, particularly with a younger generation, as a result of all your efforts in search of relatives that you too will eventually become a public profile because you would fall under the same guidelines, you may extend beyond their 4th generation.

While I'm trying to understand your gripes, there is nothing to fight here, as the terms are clear and can always change, for better or worst, though I too am a bit confused as I recently posted a discussion so that all your documents, which connect with profiles generate links through Geni, this can only be made possible through the public arena, so it's all a bit contradicting.

You're a bright man, therefor you understand the rules - You can't have your cake and eat it, your building a big tree and while there are no free lunches, I think the identical rules apply to Pro accounts.

In conclusion, either you're confused about how the system works here by now or you enjoy being abused, based on all the above.

I'm clear in admiring your efforts, all the additions to the tree brings you a sense of satisfaction, but it also seems to bring you aggravation - You can go against the grain but don't expect a smooth surface.

@Harald Tveit Alvestrand, I also would like to see "the big tree" materialize, but there are many roads leading to Rome.
The best one from my perspective is the one to achieve most of the goals with the least resistance.
I thought that this forum called "discussions" is to air and discuss problems to be fixed and ideas to improve Geni, yet it seems that some of the curators are offended when somebody starts such a discussion, answer by attacking the person instead of talking about the issues, and get personal, like you when you told me to take my business elsewhere.
I will take my business where I want, and you and those other curators that do a good volunteer job should either stick to that or shut up.
My problem is not with any of you, but with Geni and its management, yet it seems that you are trying to protect them by shielding them and attacking users that stray from the way you think things should be done.
Where is Tutak and the rest of management hiding?
Why don't they participate in a discussion that is aimed at them?

@Shmuel-Aharon Kam,
I try to be civil, especially with the curators who are volunteers trying to help all of us. But I can also fight dirty if that is your intention. I am full of bull shit as you said, but you are IT. You should go and talk to tour rabbi to find out if your behavior is commensurate with judaism, especially for someone claiming to be holier than thou.
What I wrote to Harald applies also to you.
Geni as a site trying to consolidate and merge profiles is doing everything possible on a personal level against that end, since most times when somebody that could belong to your family appears on another tree, Geni does not give an easy way to do business, but instead tries to shove down your throat Geni PRO.
Shmuel, don't take on management's fights, and especially DON'T get personal, because you wont like the results.

Daniel,

Again you are being threatening. Why is that?

Have you filed a help case? Can you post the ticket number please? Only then will I try and direct additional geni attention to your gripes.

Private User

Hi Ed.,

Good to see you. It's a beautiful fall day here and I must get outside again to enjoy it.

Is Daniel (you are related, I take it?) having difficulty using the geni application? Is there a way you can help?

It sounds like he entered profiles for living persons outside his maximum family group (4th cousin), and they defaulted to public. When I had a similar issue, I did this:

- Edit profile
- Status: living (radio button)
- Save & close
- Edit profile *again*
- the hyperlink "make this profile private" should now be available

And there's another method.

- your own Profile page
- click the "family" link on the right
- new screen: Erica Howton's Family Group
- Refine this list filters on left
- Drop down set to "living"
- Drop down set to "public"

This will give a list of any public living profiles in the family group. A hyperlink is on the right that toggles: make this profile private

Hope this helps.

Erica, I hope you are well and I thank you for the kind greeting. It's a pleasure.

If I were able to help I certainly would. I think the frustration on Daniel's part are that of the course of evolution on the part of Geni. Humans are creatures of habit and the changes seem to disturb him.

I do offer my assistance where and when I can as he is, as you said a relative, a first cousin; Though I think what he dislikes beyond the revisions is that, it seems he doesn't get any positive results from his help request from the help department "The employee staff" moreover, while I'm certain that he truly does admire the work of a volunteer, I think the approaches and responses tend to end with a feel of being attacked and further perpetuates his actions by way of fueling the fire.

Personally, unlike Daniel, I tend to avoid building the tree and remain as secluded as possible, though I can get a visual of his relentless efforts in the exploration of lineage, though I also acknowledge that in turn is a mousetrap of sorts - Though as mentioned in my previous comment in the form of assisting him generate links through Geni for all those documents he has added, it's a bit contradicting.

That said, I think his only gripes are the referenced ones; Change and the lack of participation of those at the helm who he has cited, though I think everyone has made their points and I'm a fan of the phrase "When in Rome, be a Roman" and much like volunteer work, if you don't agree with particulars of change then we are all free to abandon ship.

I don't see resolve on this topic and while I understand no one likes to abandon ship after so much effort, sometimes it's the only alternative in disagreements - Everyone looses something in that scenario - It's either that or, hence, the term "If you can't beat, Join them" in acceptance of a process you can't change.

My best to all. I'll stay out of the ring on this one. Take care Erica and hopefully the guidance you have provided will aid in helping Daniel, if that is in fact the issue - It's well defined in the manner of "How to".

Ed.

To all who have engaged on this topic - I go as far as to say, from the tree aspect of things, be it a pro user or free account user, because they are both in the mix here.

I would go as far as to say that both Daniel and Amit are actually the type of user that Geni would be inclined to take the more friendly ans subtle approach with as they are populating the tree with many profiles, which is burdensome work that is only done voluntarily. Where as I am content with a little stump. It is plentiful, such profiles that he adds that in turn can provide traffic through linking for Geni, is it not?

While it seems that Daniel may come across as the aggressor more often than not, I believe that to be the result of addressing issues through the help department and then finally vents his frustration here.

So my analysis is that "The Usual" defensive and even abusive behavior from those who may be willing to explain how and why things are moving in the direction they do as opposed to the attack method, I would think it would make for shorter and a more relaxed discussion.

I would like to say something more definitive however, while we are first cousins, there is quite an age gap resulting from the Holocaust and the aftermath that left survivors, in this case our parents to be torn apart by countries, some only learning of surviving siblings if at all many years later in life, the result even being first cousins, it is only until recently that we have come to know about each other in greater detail.

In that, I really can't say what he does with regard to the help department which ultimately leads him down this ugly path, but again if one can't address his issues then, like I said, it would be best for all to keep it short and to the point by way of a simple response as to "This is the way things are changing and we apologize if it doesn't suit your needs or perform in the manner that you wish - Chances are that would eliminate excess, rather unfriendly commentary on all fronts. At least I would like to think that would be the case.

Best to all, have a great day.
Ed.

@Erica Howton,
Again you are mixing in a discussion that was directed PERSONALLY at two of your curator colleagues, who according to my understanding got personal with me, nasty and unprofessional.
It seems that you always pick a word or sentence out of my entire comment to talk about, while ignoring the whole.
One thing that I repeatedly and unequivocably said in the DISCUSSION forum is that I admire the curators for the work they do and the help they provide to all users. Yet even though I may disagree with them on some issues, their responses don't have to be personal attacks, since my gripes were never with them, but with the system.
Last but not least, why are you Erica trying to protect your big mouth colleagues, and why some curators try to protect Geni. Your behavior may
put in some user's mind the idea that you are not "really" volunteers, but paid employees put there by Geni to placate users' gripes and shield management from doing their job...
I STILL DID NOT HEAR FROM NOAH or any of his UNDERLINGS in response to this discussion.

Daniel

I did file a Help case who said they have been in touch with you. So you have someone to correspond with (help@geni.com) if your questions have not been entirely answered.

@Daniel, the Big Tree has materialized.

Harald Tveit Alvestrand, I am glad and hope that from now on we could work together to continue and improve Geni, without personal attacks or stepping on toes.