Thomas Vowell Hooker, I - Conflicting Parents

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Sunday, September 5, 2021
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9/5/2021 at 1:30 PM

I just discovered the Vowell-Hooker line is direct for my son on his paternal side. I have only just begun adding them to our Ancestry tree.

Noticing the two sets of parents connected here on Geni, I thought this Wikipedia page might help someone make the needed corrections:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hooker_%28English_constitutional...

This John Vowell-Hooker connected as a father was married twice. Not all his children are identified on Wikipedia:

Marriage and children
He married twice:

Firstly in the 1540s to married Martha Tucker (died pre-1586), a daughter of Robert Tucker of Exeter by whom he had three sons and two daughters including:

Robert Hooker (d.1602) eldest son.[15]

Secondly he married Anastryce Bridgeman (c. 1540–1599), a daughter of Edward Bridgeman of Exeter,[15] by whom he had seven sons and five daughters.

John Hooker alias Vowell

Two things are clear from Wikipedia:

1) Rachel Hooker is not John Vowell-Hooker's wife as connected on Geni. She is his daughter; Mary Greene

2) Since only a few of John Vowell-Hooker's children are listed on Wikipedia, the connection for this Thomas Vowell-Hooker needs to be better documented, as far as which woman was his mother.

Also, the name Vowell is not a middle name. The history is this:

"Jago Vowell married Alice Hooker, daughter and heiress of Richard Hooker of Hurst Castle, Southampton.[4] Thus, as was commonly required in former times on receipt of an inheritance, the Vowell family assumed the name Hooker in the 15th century, but frequently retained the earlier name; in fact John Hooker was known as John Vowell for much of his life"

which is why I put it in my tree as a hpyhenated surname - Vowell-Hooker, but that's just my personal preference for it since it's a surname, not a middle name.

I also saw the name John Kenellyme Hooker in Ancestry trees but my research hasn't turned up anything documenting that particular name so far.

Reading over the info in the About section for Thomas Hooker of Marefield there is a good bit of information on who his descendants were but I didn't see anything documenting who his parents were.

I'm sure all these Hookers are related but there could be some same-name confusion going on with some poorly documented connections that have resulted in the conflicting parentage for this Thomas. Nothing in his About section for him or the father John Kenellyme Hooker uses the Vowell surname other than as referring to the Vowell-Hooker folks I believe may be incorrectly connected to them.

In fact, notes are already in the About sectoin for this Thomas that state:

Incorrect Parents
...

However, an earlier book published in 1909 by Edward Hooker called "The descendants of Rev. Thomas Hooker, Hartford, Connecticut, 1586-1908 : being an account of what is known of Rev. Thomas Hooker's family in England : and more particularly concerning himself and his influence upon the early history of our country : also all items of interest which it has been possible to gather concerning the early generations of Hookers and their descendants in America." incorrectly printed a pedigree showing Thomas Hook as son of Member of Parliament John Hooker of Devonshire See page XI here. This claim was broadly copied. However, as the detail of the will above naming the New England family shows this pedigree was unsubstantiated.[5]

It plainly states this Thomas is not the son of John Hooker, MP. It doesn't state who his parents were. It may be that they aren't known and how they are related to those lines may have been lost over time.

My problem as someone newly adding these lines to my son's family tree is that the Geni pathways are thrown off by the conflicting parentage. This Thomas 'may' be my son's ancestral uncle, but it seems more likely he's not.

Any assistance from any of you who know the lines better and can better document and correct the connections, the hellp would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

9/5/2021 at 4:26 PM

What are the notes in the Geni profile?

9/5/2021 at 4:29 PM

Incorrect Parents

Leslie Mahler the undisputed authority on this family has published several articles relating to the English Origins of Hooker and Garbrand Family. He points to the work of Ernest Flagg, Genealogical Notes on the Founding of New England My Ancestors Part in that Undertaking (Hartford 1926) p 324-5 above and called Ernest Flagg one of the greatest genealogists of his time. Leslie Mahler has seen no need to update this portion of his work. Other sources published since this time have upheld this work.[2][3][4]

However, an earlier book published in 1909 by Edward Hooker called "The descendants of Rev. Thomas Hooker, Hartford, Connecticut, 1586-1908 : being an account of what is known of Rev. Thomas Hooker's family in England : and more particularly concerning himself and his influence upon the early history of our country : also all items of interest which it has been possible to gather concerning the early generations of Hookers and their descendants in America." incorrectly printed a pedigree showing Thomas Hook as son of Member of Parliament John Hooker of Devonshire See page XI here. This claim was broadly copied. However, as the detail of the will above naming the New England family shows this pedigree was unsubstantiated.[5]

9/5/2021 at 4:31 PM

MP = member of parliament. Therefore, you know that set of parents has been disproved. So go ahead and disconnect them.

9/5/2021 at 4:34 PM

The about has

He married Susannah (Pym?). They were married in 1583 in Marefield, Tilton, Leicestershire, England. They had three known children:

So you can disconnect the wrong wife and the extra children.

Don’t forgot to resolve conflicting data from merges, and edit out the Vowell middle name.

9/5/2021 at 4:39 PM

This actually a mixed up mess. I’ll do some merge undos.

9/5/2021 at 5:55 PM

Fixed.

re: I'm sure all these Hookers are related but there could be some same-name confusion going on with some poorly documented connections that have resulted in the conflicting parentage for this Thomas.

No, they’re not related at all. And documentation is decent, it’s been sloppy merging.

9/6/2021 at 7:40 AM

Sorry, Erica. I just now got back online since posting this yesterday.

It did seem to be a mess and the info refuting the MP line as his parents was right there in the notes.

I had 'assumed' the folks must be related 'somehow' but just not as connected. Thanks for sorting them out!

9/6/2021 at 9:03 AM

I disconnected Rachel Grindall as a wife of John Vowell-Hooker, MP. I see that connection is all over the place because people obviously copy from other sites, but there is no real documentation for that marriage. I think it's probably another same-name mix up.

Wikipedia lists the two wives of John Vowell-Hooker III, MP as:

He married twice:

Firstly in the 1540s to married Martha Tucker (died pre-1586), a daughter of Robert Tucker of Exeter by whom he had three sons and two daughters including:
Robert Hooker (d.1602) eldest son.[15]

Secondly he married Anastryce Bridgeman (c. 1540–1599), a daughter of Edward Bridgeman of Exeter,[15] by whom he had seven sons and five daughters.

No third marriage is documented:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hooker_%28English_constitutional...

There were no children connected to Rachel and John on these connections, so disconnecting her as his wife isn't breaking up any branch of a tree, just removing an erroneous connection based on the documentation of the marriages on Wikipedia.

9/30/2021 at 7:38 PM

Thank you for your correction.

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