Yolande - Who is Yolanda de Gavre

Started by Private User on Friday, May 13, 2022
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Private User
5/13/2022 at 9:12 PM

Yolanda exists only through tertiary sources at present. If she exists the current dates would places her here as a brother of Erasmus II.

She is identified by three different names in various sources. In the French Wikipedia page on her purported spouse Wédric II “le Barbu” I find this statement...which hardly makes sense!
“ De son mariage avec Rasse de Chièvre il eut un fils : Gui de Chièvres, dont la petite-fille Ève Damison de Chièvres fut la fille de son fils homonyme Guy.
Wédric eut quatre autres enfants : Thierry, Gérard, Meuzon et Ade. Gérard suivit Godefroid de Bouillon à la première Croisade. Ade, épouse de Fastré d'Oisy, fonda un couvent de femmes à l'abbaye St-Martin de Tournai et continua la maison des seigneurs d'Avesnes.
En 1076, il meurt, s'étant repenti, il se fit enterrer dans l'abbaye de Liessies entre l'ancienne et la nouvelle église du cloître.”

“From his marriage with Rasse de Chièvres he had a son: Gui de Chièvres, whose granddaughter Ève Damison de Chièvres was the daughter of his namesake son Guy.
Wédric had four other children: Thierry, Gérard, Meuzon and Ade. Gérard followed Godefroid de Bouillon to the first Crusade. Ade, wife of Fastré d'Oisy, founded a convent of women at the abbey of St-Martin in Tournai and continued the house of the lords of Avesnes.
In 1076, he died, having repented, and was buried in the abbey of Liessies between the old and new cloister churches.“

This Rasse de Chièvre is probably a misname of Rasse de Gavre because the Gavre family was not in possession of the lordship of Chievers until 1138. However I also find an entry for Yolande de Gent b. 1002 in Tournai d. 1049 in Avesnes-sur-Helpe as wife of Wedric II. These could all be the same person. (as previously indicated these are tertiary sources and machine translations)

Finally, Geni misnamed the purported spouse. Wédric II le Barbu, mort en 1076 Said to be husband of Yolanda did not bear the nickname “le sor” that belonged to his father Wédric Ier le Sor ou le Roux (vers l'an mil) est un seigneur de Leuze et de Condé, d'une province du Nord de la France, la Thiérache. Il est le vassal du comte de Hainaut Régnier V qui possède toute la région d'Avesnes (although there are a number of sites that show both it is likely a case of internet copy and paste). Is Wedric II being confounded with Gueric II a sibling who seems to bear the corr3ct nickname?

5/14/2022 at 12:10 AM

Hi David,

I didn’t yet fully analyse your text but it seems to confirm what I was thinking for a certain time now: that Gavere and Chièvres are in fact the same word, the same etymology, one in Dutch and the other in Picardian, meaning ‘ the land alongside of a river. Gaver-Scheldt and Chièvres-Dender, where the two branches of the river Dender united.

Perhaps it could be possible to read the data that we already have with this knowledge, who knows what would come out.

I am going to read this very thouroughly once again, thanks for the text!

KR, CGV

Private User
5/14/2022 at 8:42 AM

Hi Carl,
I’ve recently seen a new comment not seen before that may be part of this equation. An uncorroborated source says that Raase III (who I haven’t got to yet) was a cousin of the famous Eve de Chievers whom he married as her 2nd husband. Also, this marriage lasted only a short time because he was killed at Roucourt!, years earlier than his son and grandson who both perished in different battles at Roucourt in 1148 and 1150. Roucourt is becoming more and more important to this time period.

Private User
5/14/2022 at 8:44 AM

I must correct myself, it was the first husband of Eve de Chievers, “ Gilles de Chin, defeated the dragon in Wasmes and was killed during the siege of Roucourt in 1137”

Private User
5/15/2022 at 10:03 AM

Carl Gustav Verbraeken
Hi Carl,
This website has a different take on the entomology of the word Chièvres for your consideration.

http://home.scarlet.be/~ab123800/CHIEVRES.html

But an important take away for me is the statement regarding the effort that Boudouin IV Count of Hainaut made in insuring the third marriage of Eve de Chièvres to a descendant of her parents from Hainaut in order to keep the lordship of Chièvres in Hainaut and not letting it become a lordship of Thierry Count of Flanders.

It would seem that this action set the stage for the later deaths of Raase IV and his son Rasse V at Roucourt by putting them in a position of being vassel to two counts.

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