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William de Say, II

Spouse: Beatrice de Mandeville

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#_To...

Empress Matilda made various grants of property by charter dated to [1141/42] including a grant of lands "quæ fuerunt patris sui" to "Willelmus de Sai". He fought with his brother-in-law at the siege of Burwell Castle in Aug 1144. m as her second husband, BEATRIX de Mandeville, divorced wife of HUGH Talbot, daughter of WILLIAM de Mandeville & his wife Marguerite de Rie ([1105]-[Rickling, Essex] 19 Apr [1197 or before], bur Walden Abbey). A manuscript listing property of Walden abbey states, quoting a charter of Stephen King of England dated 1147, that “sororem suam…Beatricem” (referring to "Galfridus Essexiæ comes") married "Hugoni Talebot" from whom she was divorced and secondly "Willielmo de Saye". The Chronicon Rameseiensis records the donations made by "Willelmum de Say…et mater sua Beatrix", dated to [1150/60]. The History of the foundation of Walden abbey records that “Beatrix de Mandavilla domina de Say, soror Galfridi primi, fundatoris, et amita Willielmi” succeeded her nephew. She was the heiress of her nephew William de Mandeville Earl of Essex, her son by her second husband, Geoffrey, being allowed to occupy her place in view of her age. The History of the foundation of Walden abbey records the death in 1200 of “Beatrix de Say, soror fundatoris nostri et uxor Willielmi de Say” and her burial in the abbey. William & his wife had two children: William de Say and Geoffrey de Say.

WILLIAM de Say (-1155).  m as her second husband, BEATRIX de Mandeville, divorced wife of HUGH Talbot, daughter of WILLIAM de Mandeville & his wife Marguerite de Rie. She was the heiress of her nephew William de Mandeville Earl of Essex, her son by her second husband, Geoffrey, being allowed to occupy her place in view of her age. William & his wife had two children: Geoffrey and William.

William de Say

d. Aug 1144

William de Say was the son of unknown de Say. He married Beatrice de Mandeville, daughter of William de Mandeville. He died in August 1144, allegedly killed in an attack on Burwell Castle, Cambridgeshires, along with his brother-in-law 1st Earl of Essex, though he may well have died later.

Between December 1141 and June 1142 he was granted his father's lands in a charter of the Empress Maud. In 1144 he joined his brother-in-law, Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex, in rebellion against King Stephen.

Children of William de Say and Beatrice de Mandeville

   * William de Say+1 d. b 1 Aug 1177

   * Geoffrey de Say+2 b. b 1135, d. bt 1212 - 1214

Citations

1. [S37] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 3, page 3531. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.

2. [S37] Charles Mosley, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.

http://thepeerage.com/p33613.htm

Descendants of William de Say l here:

http://armidalesoftware.com/issue/full/Thaler_221_main.html

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Goto this link & look for page 130 :http://www.scribd.com/doc/21224153/Descendants-of-Clodius-Merovigia...

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"William de Say, granted his (probably dead) father's lands in a charter of the Empress Maud between Christmas 1141 and June 1142; joined his brother-in-law Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex of the 1140 creation, in rebellion against Stephen 1144; married Beatrice (died 19 April 1197 or some year before it), daughter of William de Mandeville, sister of 1st Earl of Essex and divorced wife of Hugh Talebot, and was allegedly killed in an attack on Burwell Castle, Cambs, along with his brother-in-law, 1st Earl of Essex Aug 1144, though he may well have died later." [Ref: Burke's Peerage]

Sources

Phillips, Weber, Kirk and Staggs Families of the Pacific Northwest, on rootsweb, by Jim Weber