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Thomas Mathew Rogers, {Fictional}

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Thomas Mathew Rogers, {Fictional}

Also Known As: "Matthew"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, England
Death: August 07, 1608 (43)
Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, England
Immediate Family:

Husband of Mary Ann Rogers, {Fictional}
Father of Richard Rogers; Robert Rogers; Thomas Rogers, Jr. and Edmund Rogers

Managed by: Philip Virl Holmes
Last Updated:

About Thomas Mathew Rogers, {Fictional}

Research suggests that this person may never have existed. See the text for details.

Not the son of Bernard Rogers

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rogers-144

Caution: Rogers' lineages were affected by Gustav Anjou, a genealogy fraudster who made his living writing false pedigrees in the early 1900s; sadly, this profile appears to fit Anjou's modus operandi. [1] It is now believed Thomas Matthew Rogers was invented to support a link to John Rogers, Martyr as part of a falsified pedigree. Some Rogers' descendants may disagree with this conclusion. If evidence showing otherwise is at hand, please start a discussion from profile.

Here is what has been learned thus far:

Contents

  • 1 Historical Identity
  • 1.1 Biography
  • 1.1.1 Birth
  • 1.1.2 Marriage
  • 1.1.3 Residence
  • 1.1.4 Alleged Children
  • 1.1.5 Death
  • 2 Research Notes
  • 2.1 Disambiguations:
  • 2.1.1 Compilations with Errors
  • 3 Existance or Non?
  • 3.1 Factual Identity
  • 3.2 How did this happen?
  • 4 Note
  • 5 Sources
  • 6 Acknowledgements

Historical Identity

The first known mention of Thomas Matthew Rogers is found in a family genealogy published by John C. Underwood, 1911, in which Underwood claims personal descent from the Protestant Martyr, John Rogers, by connecting Thomas Matthew as the martyr's grandson through the martyr's son, Bernard Rogers. [2] Biography

Birth

Birthyear: Thomas Matthew Rogers is said to have been born in 1565. [2] [3] Parents: Purportedly the eldest son of Bernard Rogers (s/o John Rogers, Smithfield Martyr and Adriana (Pratt) de Weyden), Thomas's parents reportedly married in Scotland in 1564. [2][3]

Name at birth: Rogers' lore states Thomas Matthew was named for the nom de plume or alias used by John Rogers when he published the Thomas Matthew bible and commentary, for which John lost his life in 1555 as the first victim of the Marian persecutions. [4]

Birthplace: Unknown: Thomas Matthew's birthplace is stated in various genealogies as:

  • Unidentified [2]
  • Scotland [3]
  • Northern England [5]
  • Watford [5]
  • Dedham [5]
  • Bath, Somerset [5]
  • Stratford on Avon [5]

Marriage

Thomas allegedly married Miss McMurdo , est. 1586. [2][3][6]

Residence

Household: The Rogers' were said to have made their home in Scotland, Northern England or Stratford on Avon, England. [5]

Alleged Children

  • Thomas 1571[4][3]
  • A son 1583 [7]
  • Thomas Jul 1586 - Feb 1621, of Stratford on Avon. [2]
  • Thomas 1587/8 [4][3]
  • Edmund 1589[4]
  • William 1591[4]
  • George 1598[4]
  • Jiles [8]
  • Samuel [8]
  • Joseph 1607 [3]
  • Thomas 1609 [3]
  • John 1611 [4][3]
  • William 1613 [3]
  • James 1615 [3]

Death

Died: Unknown. Research Notes

Birth: No sources or birth records have been discovered. Marriage to Miss McMurdo: No marriage record has been located, although the date continues to be cited by modern writers. [8] Children: No records, sources or early documents show this couple had children. (Important Note: Thomas Matthew has been grievously conflated with Alderman Thomas Rogers (1536 - 1610/11) who had sixteen known children. See Disambiguations.) Residence(s): No census data, church records, land documents, deeds, bills of sale, court records, or other sources validate this family in any location. Death: His death is not mentioned in parish records, family bibles, transfer deeds or wills. Several death dates have been postulated incl. 07 Aug 1608, 1610, and 20 Feb 1611: the latter two are conflations with Alderman Thomas Rogers, and the first date, 07 Aug 1608, is the documented death of the alderman's wife, Ales Calle, and is also frequently misapplied to Alice Cosford, wife of Thomas Rogers, a pilgrim who came to the New World on the first Mayflower voyage. All three dates must, therefore, be discarded. Disambiguations:

Analyses: Diligent researchers have proven Thomas Matthew Rogers was NOT: father of Thomas Rogers b. 1571, called the Mayflower Pilgrim. related to Alderman Thomas Rogers, ( _ - 1610/11) builder of Harvard House, Stratford on Avon. father of Thomas Rogers b. 1586/87, Stratford on Avon. father of Thomas Rogers b. 1588, Dedham - d. 1638 Watertown MA. father of nor the same man as Thomas Rogers of Shottery (aft 1564- _ ), parent of William Rogers of Long Island. RE: Parents: See the profile of his postulated father, Bernard Rogers for discussion of the confusion over his father's [alleged] marriages, and question marks about what children his father had. Careful research is needed to establish the facts. ~Michael Cayley, 10 August 2019. Thomas's mother has previously been shown on this profile as Ann Leete -and- Agnes Carter, with no sources. A third mother, Mary (Unknown) is also referred to in various accounts, unsourced. [8] The other suggestion in this profile is that his mother was Adriana de Weyden, also known as Pratt, which is patently wrong: she was the wife of John Rogers the martyr. ~Michael Cayley, 10 August 2019. RE: Birthplace Confusion: Watford: bp of the Mayflower pilgrim. Dedham: No birth in Dedham records, conflated with an unrelated line. Bath Somerset: is also an apparent conflation with a like-named man. Stratford on Avon: no c 1565 birth for Thomas Matthew Rogers is recorded in Stratford records. [9] RE: Wife: Miss McMurdo first appears in the same 1911 volume as her husband. Later cited as [various first names] McMurdock, original sources for altering her name are unknown. Records have not been located to substantiate Miss McMurdo. Person Conflations: Previous profile entries incorrectly claimed: Thos. md. Joan Hurst in 1583 and had a son[7] Research shows Joan Hurst md. Jun 1583 1) Thomas Rogers of Henlow (1567-1583): they had one child, a dau..[10] Thos. md Hannah McMurdocke. No records indicate he ever had a wife named Hannah. Thos. md Eleanor Mary Ann McMurdock, sister of Hannah (above). No records indicate he ever had a wife named Eleanor Mary Ann. Alleged Children: (see also: Compilations with Errors section below) Thomas Rogers, b. Jul 1586/87 Stratford on Avon. No birth for a Thomas Rogers is recorded in the year 1586 [9] Thomas Rogers b. 11 Jun 1587. [11] [9] Authorities at Harvard House, Stratford on Avon state this child was a known s/o Alderman Thos. Rogers. See photo of lineage placard here. Also see more notes here re: conflated lineage if desired. Giles Rogers, John Rogers, George Rogers, Edmund Rogers are generational descendants, said to descend from John Rogers b. 1611 ( son Giles, his son John, his son George, his son Edmund). It is not known how their birthdates became altered to the 1580s. Compilations with Errors

Please note: Corrections to isolated segments within works are not intended to invalidate entire works nor disparage the authors to whom gratitude is extended for compiling and presenting otherwise indispensable information. After Underwood's 1911 publication, growing errors placed Thomas Matthew Rogers into several non-related Rogers' lines: The following compilations are problematic examples widely used in Rogers' pedigrees, retained for referential purposes, with clarifying comments from Wiki Tree contributors: From "The Rogers Name", by Susan B. Osborne (n.d.; contemporary)

Bernard Rogers married Mary about 1564 at Scotland, moved from Scotland to England and died in 1583. Barnard and Mary Rogers children were: 1. Thomas Matthew Rogers born 1565, married about 1586, Miss McMurds 2. Jiles [Giles] Rogers 3. Samuel Rogers -- father of: Robert Rogers who married Francis Russell, --Rob't and Francis were parents of Hugh Rogers [8] Why this compilation is problematic: Incorrect, descends generationally, mismatched lines. 1) No sources. 2) Giles was born in 1643, the uncertain son of John Rogers b. c1609 - c1611. This same John is another disputed son of Thos. Matthew (see next compilation entry). 3) Samuel was born in the 1700s and originated from Ireland, a different Rogers line. [12] [13]

From: "The ancestors and descendants of Dr. David Rogers," by De Beixedon, Edward Francis Frémaux, (1921) p. 19 Generation 18. Thomas Matthew Rogers, oldest son of Bernard Rogers and Adrianna Pratt, was born about 1565. He married a Miss McMurds. His son: Generation 19. Thomas Rogers, eldest son of Thomas Matthew Rogers; born July 1586; d. Feb 1621; married about 1606 Grace. Joseph b. 1607 Thomas b. 1609 John b. 1611 William b. 1613 James b. 1615 "He came to America with his oldest son, Joseph, in the good ship, "Mayflower". He left the others behind because they were too young to make the trip. They all came over later at different times, and as Gov. Bradford said, 'married and had many children.'" [3] Why this compilation is problematic: It is entirely false: 1) Gen-18 The husband of Adriana Pratt was John Rogers the martyr (~Michael Cayley, 2019.). Bernard was their son. 2) Gen-19 Thos. Rogers b. 1586 was NOT Thos. Rogers, Mayflower pilgrim as this pedigree asserts. He was the son of the Alderman, b. Jul 1587 (not '86) and lived in Stratford. Also conflated with Thos. Rogers b. 1588, of Dedham who md. Grace and migrated to Watertown MA. Joseph b. 1607 refers to Joseph of Eastham whose father was Thos., Mayflower pilgrim Thomas b. 1609 refers to unknown (no record found) John b. 1611 refers to John of unproven origins (problematic sources, no valid records) William b. 1613 refers to William of Long Island, son of Thomas of Shottery, Warwickshire. James b. 1615 refers to James of New London CT, who arrived in Massachusetts Bay in 1635, origins unknown. He lived for a time in Stratford, CT, not Stratford, England. Despite claims he was of Stratford on Avon or related to various influential Rogers' lines, his origins are unknown. From "Genealogies of Long Island Families": "The Ancestry of William Rogers of Long Island," by Louis Effingham DeForest, A.M., J.D., This paper, part of a concerted effort by early 20th century genealogists to disentangle William Rogers, founder of Huntington L. I. from Mayflower pioneer Thomas Rogers and Alderman Thomas Rogers of Stratford on Avon (both men once hypothesized to be the father of said William) states: "...One of the most persistently advanced of these pretensions to "Mayflower" ancestry has been based on an attribution of William Rogers, of Long Island as one of the missing children of Thomas Rogers [Mayflower pilgrim] ... but no satisfactory proof has been advanced for this parentage of William Rogers. The Rogers family was numerous and prominent in Stratford-on-Avon. Thomas Rogers, bailiff and alderman, who was buried February 20, 1610/11, was of this family. This Thomas had at least sixteen children, one becoming mother of the John Harvard of New England."[14] Why this statement is problematic: While DeForest clearly iterates neither man was the parent of William of L. I., his statement implies William may have been related to the large Rogers contingent populating Stratford at the time. Subsequently, eager but inexpert lay-researchers continued to inject Thomas Matthew Rogers into said lineage by conflating him with William's father, Thomas of Shottery or, as seen, the Alderman's son, neither of which is true. The tangled results have seriously misconstrued these contemporaries, all of whom were named Thomas Rogers. Existance or Non?

Factual Identity

While alleged parent, Bernard Rogers, was identified by eminent American genealogist Joseph Lemuel Chester as a son of the martyr and is known to have been a real person, "Chester found no evidence that Bernard had any posterity" [15]; moreover, there have never been documents or primary sources located in support for the existence of offspring, including a son named Thomas Matthew Rogers. It is believed by experienced investigators that Thomas Matthew and his wife were fabricated in the early 1900s to bridge a gap between John Rogers the Martyr and those who wanted to substantiate an important pedigree. [16] How did this happen?

In 1897-99, author Anne Haxtun attempted to prove a much-rumored connection between the Mayflower pilgrim and the Martyr. Her work provided no verifiable proof. She recanted in 1902 when other genealogical investigators disproved the lineage as conjecture. Her reversal, however, was published as an addendum in a later journal and not widely circulated. [17] Her original work continued to be remixed in the early 1900s by wealthy status-seekers such as Underwood who generally hired "pedigree tracers" to validate important ancestries: He or a relative was also a likely client of Gustov Anjou (although uncited) whose fraudulent pedigrees included nebulous or fabricated lineal "connections" to famous people. Not only did Underwood's publication continue to propagate Haxtun's invalid Mayflower connection, it also merged the Mayflower pilgrim with the son of Alderman Rogers then attached this newly-minted mythical figure to the Martyr through two unsubstantiated generations (Thomas Matthew Rogers and Bernard Rogers). The modus operandi was classic Anjou - style deception, whether done by Anjou himself or modeled by Underwood is difficult to say (most believe the former, based on Anjou's methodology). This unverifiable pedigree version, like Haxtun's, quickly spread throughout early 1900s publications. Additionally, the Rogers lines in Long Island became muddled by misconceptions that William of Long Island was of the Mayflower line, or by the conflation of Thomas Matthew Rogers with William's own father. Note

Please use EXTREME CAUTION if choosing to cite Thomas Matthew Rogers as an ancestor. All books that mention him are secondary, tertiary, or unremarked, contain no primary sources, and all genealogies attached to him have proven inaccuracies. While this information may disappoint some family investigators, in correcting previous misconceptions, opportunities arise to discover ancestors otherwise overlooked... . Sources

↑ Anjou researched family lineages, including Rogers' lines, for wealthy people who wanted influential pedigrees to boost their social/political standing; unfortunately, Anjou falsified pedigrees to gain wealth, status and an opulent lifestyle for himself. Check here, here and the linked category Gustave Anjou Fraud found at the bottom of this profile for more information re: Anjou's patterns of fraud. ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 Underwood, John C. Lineage of the Rogers family, England : embracing John Rogers the martyr, emigrant descendants to America and issue. NY: Wm. Rudge, 1911. p29-30. (provides NO sources) ↑ 3.00 3.01 3.02 3.03 3.04 3.05 3.06 3.07 3.08 3.09 3.10 3.11 De Beixedon, Edward Francis Frémaux. The ancestors and descendants of Dr. David Rogers. Private,1921p91. (note: NO original sources, author uses secondary sources, cites Underwood) ↑ 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 Hills, Leon C. History and Genealogy of the Mayflower Planters and First Comers to Ye Olde Colonie, Volume 1. Washington D. C.: Private, 1936. Republished Baltimore MD: Genealogy Publishing Co., 2002. Google Books. googlebooks.com. p131. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 Various e-trees, unsourced ↑ Re: Wife name: See De Beixedon, p91, errata, p9 wherein the typographical error McMurds is corrected to McMurdo ↑ 7.0 7.1 DeLoria-Hurst Family Tree. deloriahurst.com. Thomas Matthew Rogers. Personal Website, unsourced/unreliable. ↑ 8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 The Rogers Name. Osborne, Susan Blake, compiler. Citing Charles Alva Rogers (Charlie), son of Forrest Rogers, bro. of Charlotte Deliah Rogers. rogersdna, n.d. index. ↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 Stratford-upon-Avon (Parish), and Richard Savage. The Registers of Stratford-on-Avon, In the County of Warwick .... London: Priv. print. for the Parish register society,1905. ↑ "Joan Tilley, "Mayflower" Passenger." Geni. geni.com. Joan Hurst (well-sourced) ↑ "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ1V-551 : 11 February 2018, Thomas Rogers, 11 Jun 1587); citing , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 599,889. ↑ Samuel Rogers Artifact. Patron Record. Family Search. familysearch.org. Artifact-Samuel ↑ Burress, Rob. "Living in Asheville, North Carolina." Blogspot, 2009. blogspot.com. Robert & descendents ↑ DeForest, Louis E. "Genealogies of Long Island Families": "The Ancestry of William Rogers of Long Island." n.p., n.d. Information about William Rogers. Alan Lopez, compiler. Genealogy.com. Article Reprint ↑ Stott, Clifford L.. "The English Ancestry of the Pilgrim Thomas Rogers and his wife Alice (Cosford) Rogers." The Genealogist. 10:2. Thomas Rogers Society, n.d. thomasrogerssociety.comNotes, line 3. ↑ See more explanatory notes here and here if desired. ↑ Haxtun, Annie Arnoux. Signers of the Mayflower compact. New York, Reprinted from the Mail and express, 1897-99. Hathi Trust. hathitrust.org. (Fore-words to Part III states 2nd ed. with notes dated 1902 disavowing Mayflower connections made in her earlier volumes). See also:

http://www.ourfamilyhistories.org/getperson.php?personID=I32455&tre...


http://www.rogersdna.com/history/index.htm

From the visitation of Warwick, 1563 it is recorded that John and Adrian Rogers had eleven children, thus given:

"6. Bernard Fitz Rogers, was born 1543 at Wittenburg, Saxony-Anhault, Deutschland, married Mary abt 1564 at Scotland, moved from Scotland to England and died in 1583. Barnard's children were:

  • a. Thomas Matthew Rogers b. 1565
  • b. Jiles [Giles] Rogers
  • c. Samuel Rogers -- was father of:
  • > i. Robert Rogers who married Francis Russell -- Robert and Francis were parents of Hugh Rogers

Comments

  • from Jim Wallace, 5 December 1998: ... it appears there is a great deal of confusion between Thomas Rogers and Thomas Matthew Rogers (son of Bernard Rogers) who must be different individuals. Thomas Matthew Rogers appears to have had children: Edmund, William, George, John and Thomas. It would appear that the two are related as follows (but this needs confirmation from original documentation):
  • Thomas John Rogers - Margery Wyatt
  • William Rogers - Matilda England
  • Thomas Rogers - Margaret Pace
  • John Rogers - Adrianna de Pratt
  • Bernard Rogers
  • Thomas Matthew Rogers

Quoted from Selvage and Peterson Families and More Rootsweb database


Bernard Rogers Had no known children

view all 20

Thomas Mathew Rogers, {Fictional}'s Timeline

1565
July 11, 1565
Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, England
1587
1587
1589
1589
England
1608
August 7, 1608
Age 43
Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, England
1930
March 11, 1930
Age 43
May 29, 1930
Age 43
1935
March 2, 1935
Age 43
1936
October 28, 1936
Age 43
1950
May 9, 1950
Age 43
1999
August 12, 1999
Age 43