William Warren, of Yorktown - Primary source data: William Son of Sir Edward.

Hi, I'm trying to tighten up my genealogical records to meet the standards of The Baronial Order of the Magna Carta which by proving kinship to Sir Edward Warren I can do. I had thought my 9thGGF to be Thomas Warren 1607-1677 and in trying to affirm his being the son of Sir Edward and thereby the progenitor of the Virginia Warrens. But in reviewing records of the LDS on Familysearch, which seems to use a much higher standard than ancestry.com, I've developed an alternate theory that my ancestor is instead the half brother to Thomas, William of this record. The text attached to this profile affirms what I need to show. What I'm requesting from you is the primary source of this that supports this story. How can we prove that Yorktown William is the son of Sir Edward? Thank You,

Sincerely,

thomas satterfield

I'm to the point in my mind that I am willing to travel to Virginia and search but I need to know what library and what document(s) I'd be searching for. I'm guessing that the Virgina Archives in Richmond is the place. I have a copy of "Warrens and Related Families of North Carolina and Virginia, by Holland D. Warren, Ph.D. Printed by Delmar Printing, Charlotte, North Carolina. Copyright 1990." which helps but does not close the gap. a contact for Holland D. Warren would be super.

Can somebody tell me where I can find a copy of: "Genealogy of the Jones-Warren Family 900 AD to 1997". What library has this? I need the sourcing for the paragraph that describes William as the son of Sir Edward.

You are so right about Familysearch having higher standards than Ancestry - Ancestry has NO standards at all and will let anybody post anything without any fact checking whatsoever.

At that, the Records section on Familysearch is more reliable than the Trees section (because they do try to draw from actual primary sources when possible).

Drawing an absolute blank on the Jones-Warren Family item - are you sure the title is correct? And do you by any chance have the author's name?

I only speculate that"Genealogy of the Jones-Warren Family 900 AD to 1997" is the source, a page with that as the attributed source was given to me when I contacted the profile managers of William Warren. It's a secondary source at best and I'm wanting to see the primary sources that (may) be listed. It's only partially useful and does not attribute William's parentage although I believe it is via Sir Edward's second wife: Ann Warren. I speculate that review of the source document may give me what I'm looking for. This is the paragrpah from this report: https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/8b/fa/32/d9/534448408f...

This section is from the overview of William, If I can primary source prove this I'm good:

"William Warren was born on 1586 in Stockport, Cheshire, England to Sir Edward Warren, Knight and Anne Davenport Warren. He passed away on April 18, 1644 in Yorktown, York County, Virginia, United States.

William Warren is my 12th great uncle.

Sources: 1. Jane McDaniels Genealogy 2. Family site (Family Tree Legends)"

Familysearch does have the tree data, I need to be able to substantiate it with primary sources. I believe it but there is not enough substance to convince a skeptical genealogical group. I do have Holland Warrens report on the Warrens of Virgina but he starts with John Radcliffe Warren 1635-1691, (probable) son of William.

"the Jones-Warren Family item " is listed also under sources for this William Warren Entry. It does not support the entry. The text under the "overview" tab does, who wrote that and what is their sourcing?

If you open the "Revisions" tab on the profile, you can see who has made what changes to it, and when. (Sometimes changes to nearby profiles are listed also.) Offhand it looks as though at least five profiles have been merged to form this one.

Much of the "About" information seems to be drawn from
"Warrens and related families of North Carolina and Virginia revisited", Paperback – 1999, by Holland D Warren (Author) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1890306185/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch...

Thank you Maven,
Yes, I actually have a copy of the Holland Warren book and it is a valuable resource on this question. My problem for the present question is that it starts with John Warren, b1635 son of William son of Edward and has no information on who William was (hint: Son of Sir Edward) but does not say this or prove this. I did find another source that gives this information I need but cannot prove where it came from, The author, Norma Kirchhofer is now 87, borderline alzheimers, and cannot (yet) tell me where she got this which proves what I need: https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/warren/9155/

Here's the basic scoop on Sir Edward, from "History of Parliament Online"

b. 1563, 1st s. of John Warren of Poynton by Margaret, da. of Sir Richard Molyneux of Sefton, Lancs. educ. Univ. Coll. Oxf. 1578, BA 1581, MA 1582; G Inn 1589. m. (1) 1574, Joan, da. of Sir Edward Fitton of Gawsworth, s.p.; (2) 1581, Anne (or Joan), da. of William Davenport of Bramhall, 5s. 9da.; (3) c.1597, Susan, da. of William Booth, of Dunham Massey, 1s. 1da. suc. fa. 1587. Kntd. 1599.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/wa...

Looks as though none of the sons succeeded him in Parliament, though. Whatever they did instead will take some detective work - beginning with finding out *who* they were.

Another source, which cites a secondary source as *its* source, has this:

11. Sir Edward Warren of Poynton and Stockport, knight, baptised Prestbury, 9 April 1563, High Sheriff of Cheshire 1598, knighted in Ireland 1599, died 12 November 1609 and buried at Stockport. He married three times.
+ 1 st wife, Joan, daugther of Sir Edward Fitton of Gawsworth, at Prestbury on 22 July 1574. She died without issue.
+ 2 nd wife, Anne daughter of William Davenport of Bramall, at Prestbury on 16 October 1581, buried at Stockport on 13 July 1597. This couple had five sons: John who died young, a second John then Randle, Humphrey and William. There were also daughters Elizabeth, Margaret, Frances, Catherine, Dorothy and Anne.
+ 3 rd wife, Susanna, daughter of Sir William Booth of Dunham Massey, knight, married about 1598 and had with her further sons all said to be living in 1609: George, Edward, Laurence, Richard, Halsall, Edmund, Thomas, Radcliffe, Ralph and a posthumous son of unknown Christian name. We follow only John from the second marriage. [Drat!]
https://www.thornber.net/cheshire/htmlfiles/warren.html

So we have a William from the second marriage and a Thomas from the third. So, where did they go from there?

William, Thomas, and a 3rd brother Radcliffe went to Virginia, not at the same time but between 1620-1635. Radcliffe was killed in a military action against Maryland in 1635. William or Thomas had a son; John Radcliffe Warren 1635-1691, the father of the Virgina Warrens and a line that leads straight to me. There were other sons and grandsons of Sir Edward that crossed the water. But William and/or Thomas are the ones that interest me. BOMC acknowledges that Sir Edward had sons name Thomas, William, Radcliffe. But how to prove that the Warrens in Virgina are the same ones and that one is the father of John R. There is an ancient, and false, story of Thomas being married to Susan Greenleafe due to an ancient scribe recording a land deed inproperly

I'm confident the above story is accurate, it's the primary proof I need.

https://gw.geneanet.org/wmarjenhoff?lang=en&n=warren&oc=1&a...

This link has meaningful data extracted from another record. It's that other record(s) I'm trying to locate.

https://archive.org/details/virginiaheraldic00croz/page/n123

"Radcliffe was killed in a military action against Maryland in 1635" - if accurate, this was the earliest skirmish over Kent Island, which remained a bone of contention for decades.

There were no Warrens on the Ark and Dove first-comer list. Maryland as a destination is not reported again until 1638 (though presumably there were unrecorded arrivals).

The most likely probability is that he was one of William Claiborne's recruits, Claiborne having laid claim to Kent Island without charter and with the nominal backing of Virginia. "In 1635, a Maryland commissioner named Thomas Cornwallis swept the Chesapeake for illegal traders and captured one of Claiborne's pinnaces in the Pocomoke Sound. Claiborne tried to recover it by force, but was defeated; although he retained his settlement on Kent Island. These were the first naval battles in North American waters, on 23 April and 10 May 1635; three Virginians were killed.Hatfield, p. 186 " http://www.fampeople.com/cat-william-claiborne_3

The short of it is that Kent Island was eventually awarded to Maryland, although Claiborne tried unsuccessfully to get it back till the day he died in 1677.