Married names and birth names female

I know the "married name" is supposed to show in parentheses, but sometimes I have difficulty accomplishing that.

@Elizabethguyer(Muller) Guyer was her name by marriage. I've tried to change it...

That's the opposite of the US standard. "Maiden" or birthname in parentheses is a common US naming format. The names should go in the fields designated for the name. Birthname for the name at birth, Last name for the last used last name. Alternative names in the nicknames field.

You name formatting options will control how names are displayed for you. Find your name format controls here: https://www.geni.com/account_settings/name_preferences

Neither of you are correct when it comes to how names are written genealogically.

The Genealogical Standard is to allways write the first name a person had, both male and female, which means that we use name at birth as a persons main name in our genealogical databases.

Genealogically name at birth is written in the lastname field and the field ("astname at birth" is really not a field used genealogically at all, it is almost only Geni that has a namefield called this, so us genealogists usually don't use a field called "lastname at birth".

Birthname is written in the lastname field. Lastnames used later in life should be written in the "Also known as" (Nickname) field. That is the Genealogical Standard of how names are written and that is how it is taught in every book I have read about this topic, even American ones.

Thank you so much. Consistency is so important here.

What Jonathan Scott Krengel said is what I have seen Mike Stangel say should be done on Geni, and what I definitely prefer.

For Geni to act correctly, a profile needs an entry in both the Birth Surname Field and the Last Name Field
I do not always follow Geni's official name standards, but I do try to know what they are.

https://www.geni.com/discussions/146143?msg=1010691

https://www.geni.com/projects/Coalition-for-the-Standardization-of-...

https://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Naming_Conventions

Lois, you should follow the Genealogical standard, and not the Geni standard. And, no, for Geni to act correctly , a profile does'nt need an entry in both the Birth Surname Field and the Last Name Field.

I haven't used the Brith surname field since I started using Geni, and it is working just fine,

Remi Trygve Pedersen - No, one should use the Database as it is designed to be used, and set one's Name Preferences so one sees the names as one wants to see them.

Apparently Wikitree also believes in Birth Surname and Last Name, tho they use slightly different terms.
Found this this discussion from 2013
https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/31670/have-you-entered-married-names-a...

Remi Trygve Pedersen -
You speak.of "the Genealogical Standard of how names are written"
and "how it is taught in every book I have read about this topic, even American ones"

On Geni, each person decides for themselves how the name shall be written thru their name preferences. Any Genealogical Standards of how a name should be written apply to the choices made there, since- that determines how the name will appear if you print out a Tree or an Ancestor Report or a Descendant Report - i.e. it determines how the names will be written, which is apparently what the Genealogical Standards you speak of are addressing.
(If there is other printing out that can be done from Geni, it probably applies there as well - yes?)

How many of those books explicitly discuss databases and what should be entered in fields in a database, as opposed to how one should write the name?
And of those, how many explicitly address what should be entered in each field when there are separate fields for Birth Surname and Last Name?

Lois, I'm a genealogist, and as a genealogist I disagree with you and recommend everyone to write names the genealogical way no matter what method they use, be it on paper or on a computer no matter what software, even on Geni.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVRwMDxrIE

https://news.legacyfamilytree.com/legacy_news/2018/08/using-name-st...

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Consistency_in_Genealogical_Fo...

https://www.americanancestors.org/education/learning-resources/read...

Your youtube link starts out Giving reasons for choosing to enter a Certain way - for Consistency/ Uniformity, failing to follow the Geni standards on Geni is lessening the Consistency/ Uniformity on Geni - as to Clarity of meaning, deciding to put the name at birth in a Field labelled Last Name is definitely not increasing clarity of meaning, but the contrary - as for the third and final Consideration "Full and accurate use of automated systems", doing as you suggest certainly does not help with that on Geni
Then for their specific directions for names -
It says do not put married names in the maiden name field -- fine, and nobody is suggesting doing that on Geni -- Geni has an additional field they do not discuss, that Ancestry does not have. Nothing inconsistent with their directions to use Geni's Last Name field as the married name if that was their last name at death.
The only caveat is what happens in exporting and importing Gedcoms, and that is beyond my scope here, and should be taken up with programmers.

Your link from Legacy says "You always record a woman using her maiden name." but does not address which Data Base Fields you are to use.
- for a Data Base with 3 separate fields for Birth Surname, Last Name, and Also Known As, there is nothing inconsistent with those directions and using the Birth Surname to Record the maiden name, the Last Name Field to Record the last name she used - if you do that, then you in fact recorded the woman with her maiden name. You have also recorded an additional piece of information, yes - but in that piece it does not tell us to never ever let others know that information.

If you have entered the maiden name in the Woman's Birth Surname Field, then you have listed her under her Maiden Name.
Entering her married name in the Last Name field does not change that fact.

Your choices in Name Preferences determine how you will see the name on the screen and how it will appear in any reports you print out.
Anyone wanting to follow those Genealogical Standards can easily adjust their Name Preferences accordingly.

Geni gives people additional choices as to how they choose to see names, and stores an additional piece of information, but there is absolutely nothing inconsistent with the Genealogical Naming Standards and using Geni as it was meant to be used.

I see you don't want to understand how genealogists enter names in our genealogical databases or on paper/charts or in/on whatever.

The "maiden name field" mentioned is the field labeled Lastname or Surname, and she doesn't speak about how to do it on Ancestry, she speaks how it should be done in general, no matter what platform you use.

"You always record a woman using her maiden name." but does not address which Data Base Fields you are to use." You are ofcourse using the Lastname field.

In my opinion the field "Lastname at birth / Birth Surname" is making so much trouble especially with women's lastnames and I really wish it was removed. You don't know how many times I have seen discussions between halfsiblings about which lastname their mother should have in the Lastname field on Geni, when each of them want their mother to have the lastname she used when she gave birth to them. Us genealogists solved that problem a long time ago by using the name at birth as a person's lastname. And that is the way we are teaching it to everyone in our genealogical courses.

Geni is almost alone among the genealogical platforms having a namefield labeled "Lastname at birth" and as such Geni isn't in the mainstream. The whole naming system and the namefields on Geni is lacking bigtime. My own offline genealogical software have a main namefield where the persons names at birth is written and it also have a tab called Names with 25 lables of alternate names where you can write all the other names a person used or there is a record of during a persons lifetime. One of them is called "Married name", I wonder what that is used for? Each of these alternate namefields include Type of name, Name, date, and source and that is what Geni should have also.

I never enter a name in the Lastname at birth field since that name is written in the Lastname field.

So, please, continue doing it your way and let us genealogists do it our way which in our view is the correct one, since it has been proven to be the best.

Sounds to me like your only objection is to how Geni labels those two fields - if the Birth Surname Field were instead labeled "Real Last Name (RLN)" and the Last Name Field were instead labelled "Last Surname Used (LSU)" would you still be refusing to use the fields the way Geni wants them used?

Re: "You don't know how many times I have seen discussions between halfsiblings about which lastname their mother should have in the Lastname field on Geni, when each of them want their mother to have the lastname she used when she gave birth to them. "
Since Geni is clear that Field is for the Surname being used at the time of the Mother's Death, or currently if she is still alive, those discussions are amongst folks not interested in using the Field as it was designed to be used -- or who are unaware how it was designed to be used. However, since you refuse to use the field as it was designed to be used, I suppose there is no point in expecting you to explain to them how it is meant to be used.

I get that you do not like the hybrid Geni purposely chooses to be - but to choose to stay on Geni and purposely sabotage it is wrong.

And I get it that you completely ignore the Genelaogical Standard of how names should be written in a genealogical database and also ignore how genealogists have done this in decades.

No, I wouldn't have the namefields changed to "Real Last Name (RLN)" and "Last Surname Used (LSU)", and I wouldn't use them anymore than today since it is still wrong. One lastname field is sufficient, the rest should go under a nametab called "Alternate names".

And Geni is absolutely not clear that the Lastname field should be used for the lastname she used at her death. You know, lastname doesn't mean it's used last in a person's life, it means that it is the last name in the order of names a person has. Just read what it say in the Naming convention wikipage: https://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Naming_Conventions "In most historical profiles, especially in those prior to the 1600s, the Last Name should be the same as Birth Name. Please do not put married (i.e., husbands') names under Last Name field for women in pre-1700 Europe or other locations where it's historically inaccurate. Currently, the use of Last Name as married name for women is quite controversial and is used primarily for more recent (e.g., Colonial American) profiles but should only be used in periods and locations that such things existed." and "It would be fine to include a variation with the husband's surname in the AKA section, so that it helps with searching and matching technology." Genealogists have used lastnames at birth as a person's main lastname on every person they add to their databases, no matter what software is being used. And we will continue to do so.

I'm not sabotaging anything, I'm just using the Genealogicat Standard as everyone should, and that is not wrong.

In https://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Naming_Conventions the whole point of the section you quoted, Remi, is to alert people to the fact that it has not always and everywhere been the custom for a Married woman to adopt her husband's surname. And it is spelling out that you are to use the Last Surname the person used - so if they lived at a time the Woman did not adopt her husband's surname, you do not put her husband's surname in the Last Name field (unless you know she was an exception and actually used it) - ie it should be the last surname the person actually used, her husband's surname only if she adopted it and it was the Surname she was using at the time she died.

Mike Stangel that is against the Genealogical Standard of how names should be written and in my opinion, as a professional genealogist, it is my duty to point out that because of the lack of appropriate namefields on Geni and that Geni doesn't follow the common way of the Genealogical Standard, I will tell people how to write names according to the Genealogical Standard. I said so when we met in Oslo and you told me that eventually Geni would adopt the Genealogical Standard of how names are written in our genealogical databases.

I'm not advocating " better-than-thou attitude" nor am I advocating a "short-sighted naming madates". I'm just advocating what genealogists have done for decades and how genealogists are still doing it. You should know this by now!!!

The Genealogical Standard used by most genealogists states that a person's main lastname is the lastname at birth and that this name should be written in the Lastname field. So, Mike, I disagree with you since Geni is not following the Genealogical Standard by having a lastname field labled "Lastname at birth" which shouldn't excist in a genealogical database.. (My language setting is Norwegian, so if in the English (American) setting the wording is different, excuse my ignorance.)

Mike, I have never claimed that there is no need to document married names, ofcource there is, but because of the namefields on Geni being as they are, I recommend these names be written in the field Also known as, since that is correct according to the Genealogical Standard

Lois, I'm going to argue with you anymore, you have said what you think, and I have said what I think.

On MyHeritage, gals have a Field labelled Maiden Name and a Field labelled Married Name. No Field labelled Last Name. Guys have a Field labelled Last Name - and no other Surname Field.

Ancestry just has a Last Name Field, and multiple people have assured me on Ancestry you are supposed to put every Surname the person used and every variation you have ever seen in there - and people doing that and then importing to Geni where we have a Field for Also Known As as well as separate fields for Surname at Birth and Last Surname Used is definitely mucking up Geni.

Clearly Wikitree has two fields, at least for Women, since the Wikitree link I gave above is ttps://www.wikitree.com/g2g/31670/have-you-entered-married-names-as-the-cu...
And it includes: "When I edit a woman's current last name, I am not changing her birth surname. That remains her birth surname and is displayed in parenthisis. Her current last name, or last name at death, is the name you will find on her gravestone. That wouldn't be her maiden name, generally. Listing her current surname or surname at death, but leaving her birth surname alone gives you the option to search on either surname. Adding her additonal surnames in the other surname field opens your search opportunities to those surnames as well."

I very much like that Geni gives fields for a Surname at Birth and a Last Surname Used for both men and Women, not just one field for Surname for either or both. Also like that Geni lets us each choose how the system will display the name for us.

Family Search has four fields across the top - a short one, then two long ones, then a short one. All unlabelled, except under the second long. Field it says "if female, use maiden name" - I do not see any place to enter Also Known As.

Geni seems to definitely have the more elaborate Database.I am definitely adding that to the things I like about Geni, posibly right up there near the way Geni displays the family Tree.

Mike Stangel - did you catch that what Remi does - and says everybody should do - is put the surname at birth in the Last Name field, and leave the Birth Surname field blank?