Katherine Carter (Dale) - Was Her Mother Diana Skipwith?

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Sunday, August 29, 2021
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8/29/2021 at 9:41 AM

The curator notes state Katherine Dale's mother is disputed. I just read the info at the link refuting Diana Skipwith as Catherine Dale's mother, so I just read the info at the link refuting Diana Skipwith as Catherine Dale's mother and am dismayed that the link provided in the About section supporting Diana as the mother is nothing more than someone's personal genealogy database and offers no documentation at all. So, it's not 'proof' of the connection.

I hate to admit it, but the argument at the link refuting the connection is compelling, well-documented. I'd like to argue that perhaps Diana signed documents using her maiden name even though already married to Edward Dale, but the site states that after they were married she never signed with her maiden name again.

This is also pretty convincing:

The Thomas Carter prayer book states: “With this Book pr Rv Mr John Sheppard on Wednsday ye 4h Day of May 1670–wsas Mard Mr Thomas Carter of Barford in ye County of Lancaster in Virga & Katherine Dale ye eldest Daughr of Mr Edw: Dale ye same County.” Edward Dale had three daughters: Katherine, Mary, and Elizabeth. All three daughters were living when Thomas Carter married Katherine Dale. Therefore, Mary Dale was younger than Katherine. Mary Dale died ca. 1683, but she left a son named Humphrey Jones Jr. by her second husband, Humphrey Jones. Humphrey Jones Jr. was living and had a guardian when Edward Dale made his will. Edward Dale didn’t extract a “twelve pence” clause from the guardian of Humphrey Jones Jr.; therefore, Mary Dale wasn’t a daughter of Diana (Skipwith) Dale. And that ends the claim that Katherine (Dale) Carter was a daughter of Diana (Skipwith) Dale.

Given all the evidence against the connection and as much as I hate to lose that line of ancestry, it does seem Edward Dale had to have been married before his marriage to Diana Skipwith and that his daughters were born of the first marriage.

If anyone has found some documentation to the contrary, please share that to help nail this down. I'm not wanting to disprove the connection, that seems to have already been done. I'd much rather try to prove it's valid, if possible. Otherwise, the Geni pathways are wrong and there are probably others like myself still thinking Diana Skipwith is our ancestor.

Thanks for any assistance on this.

8/29/2021 at 10:42 AM

I just read this on Wiki, which may explain the signature of Diana Skipwith vs. Diana Dale:

On the other side of this question is author, Douglas Richardson, who contends that "high born Englishwomen" often used their maiden names after marriage when signing legal documents.[3] Among his most compelling arguments is that Katharine (Dale) Carter, chose the names Edward (for her father), Diana (for her mother), and Henry Skipwith (for her mother's father) for three of her children.[3] That last child's name is difficult to explain unless Katharine was the daughter of Diana. Another piece of evidence is the Carter family prayer book which records only one marriage for Edward Dale, "early in life" to Diana Skipwith.[3] The phrase "early in life" would seem to imply he was married before the age of thirty, or before 1651. One would think that an earlier marriage would have also been recorded in the family record. In regards to the bequest to Mary Dale by Vincent Stanford, no claim of any kinship to Mary was made. It would have been customary to designate the relationship, and the fact that Stanford did not leaves doubt about that theory.[3] Seems the question is not entirely resolved and maybe never will. Nevertheless, Diana Skipwith is the generally accepted mother of Katharine, baring some proof otherwise.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dale-352

and their conclusion was:

Diana Skipwith is the generally accepted mother of Katharine, baring some proof otherwise.

8/29/2021 at 5:58 PM

Debbie Gambrell - Richardson is an accepted authority.

8/30/2021 at 8:27 AM

Yes and what he stated makes perfect sense. So, I'm leaving her attached as my ancestor in my Ancestry tree, as stated...'baring some proof otherwise'.

I'm so glad I came across that info from Richardson. The info for and against was so sketchy before reading that.

8/30/2021 at 10:42 AM

Feel free to add more info to profiles (I know you do).

8/30/2021 at 11:10 AM

My line on Ancestry and Geni match at this point in time:

Katherine Carter (Dale) is your 8th great grandmother.
You
→ Roz Morgan
your mother → Bertha Morgan (McLain)
her mother → Emily Elizabeth McLain (Pearson / Rigdon)
her mother → Sarah Anne "Annie" Carney / McLain (Pearson)
her mother → Elizabeth Pearson (Grayson)
her mother → Ambrose Grayson
her father → Sarah Elizabeth Grayson (Carter)
his mother → Capt. George Carter
her father → James Carter
his father → Katherine Carter (Dale)
his mother

8/30/2021 at 9:31 PM

My line to her...
Katherine Carter is Polly GEDmatch kit # BY8170743's 11th great grandmother!
Polly GEDmatch kit # BY8170743
You → Benjamin H Watkins (changed to Glen Taylor)
your father → Unknown Watkins
his father → Margaret L Walker
his mother → Sarah A. Parker
her mother → Russel Parker
her father → Robert J Parker
his father → Patriot Marion's Raider under Dubose, William Parker / Cheraw to the Creek
his father → William Parker, Marion's Raider Patriot
his father → Judah (Knight) Parker
his mother → Isabell Carter of Oropeake/Coropeake, "Churrah Lands"
her mother → Isaac Carter
her father → Capt. Thomas Carter
his father → Katherine Carter
his mother

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