Benjamin James - Choctaw Indian Trader -- are these 2 the same Benjamin - who are the real parents?????? Help!!!!

Started by Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 on Sunday, October 24, 2021
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Do we have 2 families mixed up???

Benjamin D. James, Jr. (shows parents as Big Ben James & Jane Dobbins)

Benjamin James, Indian Agent (shows parents as John Thomas James & Dinah Allen)

@Erin Ishimoticha

n 1868 Miss Lorinda married a man of her Lehigh community, the well-respected rancher Henry Clay James. He was born on January 8, 1840 in the Choctaw Nation to a white man, Benjamin James, and a Choctaw woman named Mary Ann.

There is much speculation about who Benjamin James was. One of the signors of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit was a Benjamin James (a translator for the Choctaws), who received two sections of land. Benjamin James, Jr. is listed as living next to Capt. Benjamin James on the Armstrong Roll and is thought to be a son. A Last Will and Testament for Benjamin James of the Choctaw Nation, dated Apr 25, 1859, acknowledges a son, Henry, among other children. Executors named in the will were George W. Harkins, John Carr, and Leroy P. Griggs.

In testimony before the Dawes Commission on Dec 8, 1903 [Census Card #42], Henry C. James stated that he was sixty years old living near Lehigh, I.T. He was a citizen by birth of the Choctaw Nation. He was born in Boktuklo County, C.N., close to Lukfata in the vicinity of Wheelock Academy. For the past 13 years he resided about 2 and a half miles west of Lehigh.

https://choctawspirit.wordpress.com/2020/02/14/the-four-daughters-o...

Two of the early traders among the Choctaw were Thomas James, and his (I assume not close) kinsman Benjamin James. Thomas James was ran out of the Choctaw Nation to Cumberland during the American Revolution by the Spanish, with John Turnbull, James Cole, Phillip Mulkey, Thomas Hines and others in 1783. Their lands were declared forfeit by the Spanish. Well, we know John Turnbull returned, and was a successful early trader in the nation, fathering a family of Choctaw and Chickasaw children. It is presumed he also is the father of Susanna Vaughn, the wife of Zadoc Brashears. James Cole, who likely is associated with the Cole's that lived in the Cole's creek Spanish settlement, is presumed to be the father of Robert Cole, and likely two sisters, the wife of Cornelius McCurtain and the wife of John Nelson. It is probable he is not the father of Greenwood Leflore's grandmother.

Thomas James is a curious man. He remained in Tennessee, and his heirs filed a claim on his Spanish land grant. This was on the Bayou Pierre for 500 acres in 1777. Thomas also has an additional 400 acres on the Mississippi. Benjamin James, in his will gives his youngest ((Choctaw) son, Benjamin James Jr land in the Eastern and Western Districts.

https://jenniferhsrn.blogspot.com/

Easily as venerable was Benjamin James, a transplanted Virginian involved in Indian trade in 1771 when the British officer Bernard Romans stayed overnight at his home in Choctaw country. 21 James shows up on several censuses taken by the Spaniards after they had retaken West Florida during the American Revolution. James was an interpreter and go-between for the Spanish officials at Mobile who frequented the Choctaw factory at St. Stephens in the early 1800s. 22

https://accessgenealogy.com/alabama/choctaw-trade-and-coexistence-i...

Among the earliest traders established in the Choctaw nation by 1773 were Benjamin James and Thomas James, cousins from Virginia
(Benjamin mentioned several times) https://jenniferhsrn.blogspot.com/2017/01/dynastic-relationships-am...

https://www.ericjames.org/htmlbj/fam/fam00001.html

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/g/l/e/Trena-M-Gleason/WEBSITE-0001/UH...

Susan (James) Colbert, a Choctaw Indian, was the daughter of Benjamin James, who was an American agent among the Choctaws. Major James Colbert was born about 1768 and died at Doaksville, I.T. in May 1842. He was the son of James Logan Colbert and his 3rd wife, a half-blood Indian. The Colbert nepotism through marriage spread to the ruling families of all of the Five Civilized Indian tribes.
https://www.choctawnation.com/history-culture/people/original-enrol...

Private
10/25/2021 at 7:28 AM

Dates and wife's names are off for it to be the Benjamin James and Mary Ann of the source's description. Seems to me a Benjamin James and wife Mary Ann are needing their own profiles.

About Benjamin D James, II - Indian Agent
A Patriot of the American Revolution for SOUTH CAROLINA with the rank of Private. DAR Ancestor #: A061457

Reference: Ancestry Genealogy - SmartCopy: Jul 8 2018, 23:56:36 UTC
https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/database-of-choctaw-mixed-bl... James, Ben Choctaws T Hawkins:181 James, Benj., Jr. Tombigbee R. Y ARM

================
Among the first white men who came into the territory of the Choctaw and Chickasaw were Isaac Perry, Benjamin James, Louis Durant, the Folsom Brothers, Nathaniel, Edmund and Ebenezer, Louis and Michael Lefleau (Leflore), Charles Juzan, John Turnbull, Thomas Vaughan, John Pitchlynn, John Jean Cravatt, Samuel Mitchell, the Brashears brothers Zadoc, Turner, and Alexander, and James "Roscoe" Cole. They married into the tribe, and most remained among them until their deaths. Often these names will be seen as interpreters on treaties with the United States. Many of the women these men married were sisters and female relatives of the Chiefs of the districts or towns in which they resided. This allowed their offspring great influence in the tribal politics.

As they were among the first offered the opportunity for education at the missionary schools in the Choctaw Nation, and many of them or their descendants were students at the Choctaw Academy in Scott County, Kentucky. http://jenniferhsrn2.homestead.com/choctawfamilies.html

=====================
Benjamin James, Jr. was born in Cheraw District in South Carolina. After the Revolutionary War he settled in northeast Georgia where he died in Jefferson County. He was married to Sarah Newton in 1761 in Cheraw District, South Carolina. His father, Benjamin Sr. and grandfather, Thomas, migrated from Chester County, Pennsylvania to the Peedee River in South Carolina. Thomas had been born before 1690 in Pembrokeshire County, Wales and married Mary ca. 1715 in Chester County, Pennsylvania. Descendants lived in Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere

The family of Benjamin James (1740-1800) revolutionary soldier resident of South Carolina and Georgia : some ancestors and descendents: other surnames include: Dubose, Emmanuel, Greene, King, Mehaffey, Snellings, and Weaver https://www.worldcat.org/title/family-of-benjamin-james-1740-1800-r...

======================
Children of Benjamin James and Sarah are: Benjamin James, b. 1761, Cheraw, Darlington, South Carolina, USA359, d. Sep 1800, Jefferson, Georgia, USA359. John James, b. 1775, Cheraw, Darlington, South Carolina, USA359, d. 1876, Eufaula, Barbour, Alabama, USA359. Gideon James, b. 1765, Cheraw, South Carolina, USA359, d. 1836, Union, Kentucky, USA359. Joseph James, b. 1770, South Carolina, USA359,d., Jones, Georgia, USA359. https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/g/l/e/Trena-M-Gleason/WEBSITE-0001/UH...

====================================
HISTORICAL QUARTERLY. 141 SOME OFFICIAL LETTERS OF GOVERNOR EDWARD TELFAIR.

Benjamin James, Esq., Agent Choctaw Nation. Augusta, Ga., 27th August, 1786.

Sir: I have the pleasure to transmit your commission as agent of the Choctaw Nation, and at the same time to inform you that the Legislature have revoked and made null and void the powers granted to John Wood to act in that office. It affords me pleasure to be informed of your abilities and great influence in the aforesaid Nation, by which means I am hopeful your well directed exertions may terminate favorable to the present views and designs of this State. The Legislature in consequence of murders and depredations committed by the Creek Indians have directed fifteen hundred men to be embodied immediately to attend Commissioners appointed to treat with the Creek nation, and to demand satisfaction, and assurance of peace, and thereafter should it become necessary the aforesaid men are to be joined by another body to carry immediate and vigorous operations against the said Indians. The intended bodies of men in case of need will be in readiness to march about the first week in November next. I have desisted from entering into a minute detail of this business in the talk herewith sent. On a presumption it will be more expedient that you in conjunction with Robert Dixon and Stephen Jett, Esquires, make such communication to the head men and warriors of that nation on this subject, as you may deem best calculated to cultivate the good and friendly disposition of that nation, and to make them otherwise useful to this State. In the event of War with the Creek Nation I shall look forward to making a supply of ammunition for the service of Choctaws; in case you give me full assurance, that the force of such supply will be directed to the proper object. I am sir, E. T.

William Davenport, Esq., Commissary Choctaw Nation. Augusta, Ga., 27th August, 1786. Sir: The General Assembly during their late session appoint- ed you Commissary of the Choctaw Nation with a salary of twenty-five pounds Sterling, in pursuance of which you'll receive your commission. I have now to give you in special charge to cultivate the good and friendly disposition of the said nation in behalf of this State and to use every prudent measure to render them beneficial in case of open hostilities with the Creek Nation. I shall on this subject refer you to Robert Dixon, and Stephen Jett, Esquires, Commissioners of this State in that department, and also to Benjamin James, Esq., Agent in the aforesaid Nation. I am sir, E. T.

https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/tree/10147643/person/492549...

Will of Benjamin James lists his wife as Sarah

See Avatar on Sarah "Sallie" James

Some of the James' enrolled as Choctaw, others as Chickasaw

Choctaw Trading House Records http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~ewyatt/genealogy/_borders/choctaw%20...

http://www.forttombecbe.org/page/History

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/100310235

Choctaw Academy - Scott County, Kentucky
https://kyhi.org/the-choctaw-academy/

Son Gideon James was born in Cheraw, SC but was later found in several different places in Kentucky.

Private User
11/5/2021 at 12:40 AM

I only have one of the Benjamin Jameses on my tree. The Benjamin "Indian Trader" James is not on my tree on Ancestry, so I have relinquished control.

He seems to be an in law on my mother's side, so I am uncertain if there may be a link further up the line at this point.

I'm still investigating that line and am much further down around the 3rd great grands and investigating their lines down to today before going back up to the 4th greats and working down again.

It does seem these are two different men from what I see on my tree, one is an ancestor (uncle by marriage) and the other is an in law of an in law.

Sorry I cannot be of further assistance on this.

I think we have this Benjamin James Benjamin James, Indian Agent

and this Benjamin James Benjamin D. James, Jr.

mixed together

Curator assistance needed please not getting response from Erin Ishimoticha someone please help Erica Howton

11/6/2021 at 3:39 PM

Sarah Newton was born 1765 in SC616.She married Benjamin James on 25 Oct 1761 in South Carolina, son of Benjamin James and Jane Dobbin.
More About Sarah Newton and Benjamin James:
Marriage 1: 25 Oct 1761, South Carolina.
Marriage 2: 1761, SC.616
Children of Sarah Newton and Benjamin James are:
+Susan James, b. 27 Mar 1783, Choctaw Nation, IT617, d. 03 Dec 1863, Soper, Indian Territory, Oklahoma, USA617.

11/6/2021 at 3:43 PM

Benjamin James353 was born 11 Dec 1720 in Goshen, Chester, Pennsylvania, USA353, and died 08 Feb 1774 in Craven, Charleston, South Carolina, USA353.He married Jane Dobbin.
Children of Benjamin James and Jane Dobbin are:
+Benjamin James, b. 1740, Bertie, North Carolina, USA353, d. 1800, Jefferson, Georgia, USA353.

—-

Still not getting it.

Erica Howton

Susan James was the daughter of Benjamin James, Indian Agent. Don't know who her mother was.

Susan (James) Colbert, a Choctaw Indian, was the daughter of Benjamin James, who was an American agent among the Choctaws. Major James Colbert was born about 1768 and died at Doaksville, I.T. in May 1842. He was the son of James Logan Colbert and his 3rd wife, a half-blood Indian. The Colbert nepotism through marriage spread to the ruling families of all of the Five Civilized Indian tribes. http://www.choctawnation.com/history/people/original-enrollees/thompso n-robert-sinia/

Susan (James) Colbert to President Andrew Jackson, 28 MAR 1831: [M-234 Roll #136] Tockshish Chickasaw Nation March 28. 1831 To the President of the U. States Sir In the articles of the treaty which was made and concluded by Major John H. Eaton and Genl. John Coffee with the Choctaw tribe of Indians on the ___ day of September last and in the supplement to the Main treaty, the undersigned begs leave to call your attention was granted a reservation of Six hundred and forty acres of land to be located any where within the limits of the Choctaw Nation on unappropreated land: and also of selling the same to whom I might think proper with your consent, or with the consent of the President of the U. States. Having learned that the above named treaty has been ratified and having met with an opportunity of selling my reservation, which is my wish to do for as great a sum, as I find I shall be able to do within a considerable length of time time to come, and have the payments properly secured. I have this day bargained and sold my claim or reservation to Mess. Paul Gordon and John Bell of Cotton Gin Port, Monroe County,Miss., the object therefor of this Communication is to request your consent to the bargain and sale I have this day made. My right and interest in said reservation, it may be proper to say to you, I have sold for the sum of One Thousand five huindred dollars, two hundred dollars of which has been paid me in hand -- the balance is well secured to me in three anual installments. The persons named to whom I have sold, I have long known, and have no fears but that the money will be paid me punctually to a day. Your compliance therefore with the above request will confer on me a great favor. I am Respectfully Yours &c Susan [her X mark] Colbert We the undersigned beg leave to certify to your Excellancy that we were present at the signing of the articles of the Contract thus made and entered into between Susan Colbert of the Chickasaw Nation and Robert Gordon & John Bell of Cotton Gin Port, Miss. and that every thing in relation thereto was conducted with utmost fairness that the Sum of two hundred dollars was paid her in hand; and that the Credit payments named in the above letter, and for which they have executed their notes, we believe will be punctually paid, and that in our opinion no fraud is either designed nor in any wise intended. We further certify that Mrs. Colbert is in easy circumstances and is not compelled to sell, and that it is of her own free will and accord that she makes this sale. Thomas C. Stuart L. M. James Jn A. Bynum http://genforum.genealogy.com/james/messages/33154.html

Erica Howton

I believe this is the correct info for Benjamin James, Indian Agent

Fauquier Co VA, and died Oct 1803 in Fauquier Co VA. He married (1) Unknown Choctaw Bet. 1765 - 1770 in
Choctaw Nation. She was born Abt. 1745. He married (2) Elizabeth Parr May 14, 1799 in Fauquier Co VA. She
was born 1745 in Fauquier Co VA.

Children of Benjamin James and Unknown Choctaw are:
+ 2 i. Adam5
James, born Abt. 1766; died Bet. 1836 - 1850 in Oktibbeha Co MS.
3 ii. George James, born Abt. 1767.
+ 4 iii. Susannah James, born Mar 27, 1783 in Choctaw Nation, Alabama; died Dec 03, 1863 in Choctaw Nation,
Indian Territory.
+ 5 iv. Benjamin "of the Choctaw Nation" /Jr./ James, born Oct 01, 1784 in Fauquier Co VA; died Bet. 1850 - Apr
25 1855 in Choctaw Nation, IT, OK.

Children of Benjamin James and Elizabeth Parr are:
+ 6 i. Thomas Parr5
James, born Jul 24, 1801 in Fauquier Co VA; died Feb 10, 1861.
+ 7 ii. John W. James, born 1803 in Fauquier Co VA; died Bef. 1870.
+ 8 iii. William M. James, born Aft. Oct 1803 in Fauquier Co VA.

https://www.ericjames.org/pdf/ChoctawChickasawDesBJ.pdf

At the very bottom of this link mentions Susannah James

https://www.choctawnation.com/history-culture/people/original-enrol...

11/6/2021 at 9:47 PM

That’s what Erin configured also in Geni, I think. Who needs to be moved?

And who did Sarah "Sallie" James marry?

Erica Howton

Do you mean who did Sarah "Sallie" Newton marry? Benjamin James

Sarah Sallie Newton married Benjamin James NOT the Indian Agent

11/6/2021 at 11:19 PM

So it’s a third Benjamin James? Who did Rev Aaron, formerly Indian Agent Benjamin James marry?

11/6/2021 at 11:22 PM

(I realize you may not know the answer to the last. It’s that I trust Erin’s notes, so if we get the tree to how she set it, we’ll be good).

11/6/2021 at 11:52 PM

Don’t get alarmed - I’m undoing merges.

What’s confusing me is Choctaw Sallie Newton vs Georgia Sallie Newton.

11/7/2021 at 1:06 AM

Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 - Benjamin James, Indian Agent & family is sorted to source.

Benjamin James, Indian Agent. Son of Capt. John James and Dinah Allen.
Husband of Choctaw woman and Elizabeth Parr

Your other guy is still a mess.

Erica Howton

I THINK Aaron James is actually Benjamin James, not sure who changed it. At this point I'm so confused I don't know if it'll ever get fixed.

11/7/2021 at 5:59 PM

Aww. I agree Aaron is likely a mistake. The Indian Trader line is totally sorted. The FTM was backwards, I’m pretty sure this is right:

Benjamin James JR Son of Benjamin "Big Ben" James, Sr. and Jane (Dobbins) James. Husband of Sarah.

I’m a little unsure of Sarah Newton’s origins. But the James children are more the concern - there are too many still.

Which one are you tracking?

11/7/2021 at 6:03 PM

I see Gideon James was disconnected, his family ended in Hopkins KY, I should look for relatives.

Erica Howton

Gideon James is my 4th grandpa his daughter Sarah Elizabeth (James) Lynn is my line. Trying to find documentation to pin down his parents.

There's a find a grave that says he may be the son of Benjamin James/Sarah Newton but I'm not sure that's correct. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/133697081/gideon-james Trying to find something more solid.

I think Gideon's line MIGHT go like this
Benjamin James/??? (not sure which one just yet); Abel James/Sarah Unknown; James James/???; Howell James/Elizabeth Jinkins (I have some documentation on these & have added to geni Howell James, Sr.)

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