Cecily Troutbeck

Ormerod has the 2nd John Cone as dying at Blore Heath in 1459, married to Cicely Troutbeck, daughter of John Troutbeck, and the father of John Done who married Elizabeth Weaver.

8 children:

• John Done, of Utkington, d. Bef 1505, (IPM date) m Elizabeth Weaver
• Robert living 13 Edw 4
• Richard 1 Ric 3
• Elizabeth m Sir Thomas 'Hen' Salusbury, of Lleweny
• Margery als Margaret m 1) Philip Egerton 2) Thomas Hurleton 3) Hugh Calverley
• Janet m John Hockenhull, of Hockenhull
• Cicely m - Thelwell
• Jane m John Gryffin

  ---

death date of 1439 removed. Highly unlikely that she had multiple children before the age of 14. (Janet Palo-Jackson, curator)

Comments

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/soc.genealogy.medieval/OGTjCE...

I have been looking at this family again, and have noticed another possible chronological problem with the pedigree as usually given. The wife of Sir John Done (1419/20 - 1459) is usually given as Cecily Troutbeck, based on this entry in the Recognizance Rolls of Chester:

1454, Dec. 17. Hugh de Calveley, and William Horton, license to, to grant ten messuages, one mill, ten gardens, a hundred and thirty-one acres of land, and fifty two acres of pasture in Kyngesley, Bradley, Neuton, and Norley, held of the Earl of Chester, in capite, by knight's service, to William son of John Troutbek, William Brereton, junior, Thomas de Manley and John Bruyn, Tervyn, to hold during the life of Cecilia, daughter of John Troutbek, armiger, wife of John son of John Donne, of Utkynton, armiger, with successive remainders in tail-male on the death of the said Cecilia to the said John son of John Donne, of Utkynton, armiger, the heirs male of John Donne, grandfather of the said John Donne, or Utkynton, and then to the right heirs of the said John Donne, of Utkynton. [33 & 34 Hen. 6. m. 3 (4).]

https://books.google.ca/books?id=55QbAQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA669&ots=uXc2hLw...

The problem is that the John Troutbek referred to seems to have been born about 1412 (aged 40 in 31 Hen. 6, according to Ormerod), and his wife Margery Hulse was born about 1417 (aged 14 in 10 Hen. 6, according to Ormerod). The heir of Sir John Done (1419/20 - 1459), also named John Done, was born about 1442. Now if Cecily was the younger John's mother, that would mean his grandmother (Margery Hulse) would have been 25 when he was born. Also, in that case, it would seem a little strange for John (1419/20 - 1459) to be referred to as "John son of John Donne, of Utkynton, armiger", since the father of John (1419/20 - 1459) had died in 1441. And why is the grant only happening in 1454, and not earlier?

All this leads me to suspect that John Donne (1442 - abt 1504) was married first to Cecily Troutbeck, and secondly to Elizabeth Weever (the widow of John Stanley). What makes me a little uncertain is that, in the 1454 Recognizance Rolls, Cecilia is called the "wife" of John Donne, when she and her husband would both have been about 12 (if her husband is the younger John Donne). Wouldn't her husband have had to have been 14, according to canon law? Or could she have been called his "wife" after betrothal?

Does anyone know anything which rules out Cecilia being the wife of John Donne (born 1442), or which verifies that she was the wife of John Donne (1419/20 - 1459), perhaps his second wife?

References

• ” The History of the County Palatine and City of Chester: Comp. from ..., Volume 2” By George Ormerod. Page 248. GoogleBooks daughter of John Troutbeck
• https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00173132&tree=LEO cites
• The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald.Q 117320
• Journal of the Chester and North Wales Architectural, Archaeological and Historic Society ns 28:164