Godebert "the Fleming"

Presumably one of the Flemings who settled in Pembrokeshire under Henry I.

https://histfam.familysearch.org//getperson.php?personID=I29761&tre...

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A prominent family in Rhos Godebert the Fleming of Rhos was born in Roch parish in 1096. He was a Flemish Knight and had 2 sons; Richard FitzGodebert de Roch and Rodebert FitzGodebert de Roch. They acquired the Roch name from the local parish area. Both became Knights and Richard FitzGodebert de Roch was the first Knight to land in Ireland in 1167, prior to the main Norman forces. The families became known as de Roche, or de Rupe (in latin) and they acquired substantial property in Wales and Ireland, including Roch Castle and Pill Priory. Descendants of these Roche families are found predominantly in Ireland and to a lesser extent throughout the UK. Cambro-Irish Timeline (PDF file, 53 pages) This article by Jim Roache provides an extensive timeline of Roche history from the 12th century to the 18th century.

Roch in Wales and Operation Ireland (PDF file, 27 pages) This article by Jim Roache focuses on the original Roche family in Wales during the 12th century and their involvement in the Norman invasion of Ireland.

de la Roche history by Llangwn History Society (PDF file, 9 pages) Article by the Llangwn History Society (Pembrokeshire) on the Roche family.

http://rochelineages.wordpress.com/background/brief-history/ ___________________________________________________________________________________ Wales - Roch in the Hundred of Rhos There is ample documentation from highly credible sources that the first at Roch was Godebert Flandrensis (of Flanders). His sons - Richard and Rodebert (Norman French), are documented in several source documents including the Complete Peerage (Vol 5, 1949, St. Martin's Press, N.Y., Geoffrey White, Editor). However, with much that is written, the Compete Peerage, Burke's and other Reference books are not without error. White states that Godebert, in AD 1130, was "paying to have certain lands in Pembroke", implying that the family was well established there by then.

According to feudal tradition, they would have been required to supply men (Knight's fees) and arms at the pleasure of the King or their overlords, the de Pendergasts and de Clares for their holdings (especially ones of such size and value) in the barony of Rhos.

There is no supported claim to them having been at Hastings. The "Cambro" in Cambro-Norman is derived from Cumbria, Latin for Wales. There was a permanent Norman/Flemish presence in Scotland and Wales well before the Conquest, we do know that Roche or de Roch, initially Godebert and FitzGodebert were in Wales by the reign of Henry I (1100-35). In Wales, the furthest back we can go with authority is to "The Chronicle of the Princes" (Brut y Tywsogyon). The Chronicle was a continuation of Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae. It survived several Welsh translations from original Latin, which did not survive. It records that Normans originally arriving in Wales to defend the March (border) spoke Old French [not English or a Germanic tongue].

It also confirms the systematic planting of Flemish settlers in the hundred of Rhos and Dauglleddau about AD 1106, 1108 and 1111 by Henry I. But, Godebert is reported as having had been born in Roch in AD 1096. Henry I was leery about the Flemish and Scots becoming too friendly in the north of England and in Scotland. He trusted neither. He sent their Peerage home and their rank and file to Wales. As with Henry II and his son John, who had reservations about "the foreigners" and the Irish, Henry I was insecure about the possibility of an alliance threatening his Crown. However, many had taken Scots names by then, and became leaders in future Scots rebellions. Norman families like the de Clares were looked after, but they had to fight to hold the grants they were given - not always successfully - against the Welsh. They were also often in trouble with their Kings, not being know for the quality of their character. Castles didn't exist in Wales before the Normans arrived. Yet in two centuries, they built hundreds. Most were the property of "Marcher Lords" (from the French word "march" meaning "frontier"). The March Lordships eventually swung in a great arc from Chester in the north to Chepstow in the south, and then west to Pembroke(shire). This concept had originated with Charlemagne. It put potential trouble makers as far away from him as possible and held to potential for expansion of his domain. The grandest and most powerful were built by the Lords, but there were smaller ones built by lieutenants of the major barons. Several stood guard over the Norman de la Roch holdings near Williamston in Llangwm, Pembrokeshire. Roch was at one end of the family's holdings and Benton was at Llangwm, the other end. Roch Castle near Haverford, was "caput baroniae" to Godebert's family, but they spent more time at Benton Castle and Pill Priory from the second generation onward. Roch Castle is located in the Village of Roch, overlooking St. Bride's Bay. Llangwm was close to the Welsh, but also had land reaching to the sea. Like Roch, the surrounding countryside was cleared so that an approaching enemy would be seen. Godebert of Flanders, however was subinfeudated to Maurice de Prendergast and, as such, did not hold his position and lands direct from deClare, but from a man much renowned in the historical record. In the barony of Rhos, he, unlike de Clare who was at times stripped of the title Earl by the Monarchy, had solid control over four parishes - Roch, Nolton, Camrose and Treffgarne, and seems to have enjoyed the respect of the local people. Otherwise it would have proven difficult to hold land so close to the Welsh. ...

I don't think anyone - myself included - can say with authority, but it would seem Godebert was not one of those re-located from Scotland and granted large holdings amongst the Normans on the March. Whatever his nationality, he was born in Wales earlier. Born in Roch in AD 1096, the question becomes how far back does the family go on the western side of the Channel? Flemings and AngloFrisians had been in both England and Scotland intermittently for a very long time. Could the Welsh have dubbed him Flemish because so many of the displaced Flemish from Scotland settled his lands?

http://rochelineages.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/roch-in-wales-and-...