Herbert FitzHerbert, Lord Chamberlain

Please see Darrell Wolcott: The Herbert Family Pedigree; http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id40.html. (Steven Ferry, April 21, 2020.)

From Medlands:

HERBERT FitzHerbert [I] (-[before 1155]). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Herbt fil Herbti Camer…tra patis sui" in Hampshire. An undated charter of Thomas Archbishop of York records that "domino Herberto Camerario et filio eius" were enfeoffed with "Laudesbrough, cum Tolethorpe, Wiverthorpe cum Helperthorp et duabus Luttunis in Turgisleby" and other properties in Yorkshire and in Gloucestershire, witnessed by "…Herbertus filius…". "…Hereberto filio Hereberti…" subscribed a charter of Renaud Earl of Cornwall which names "matertere mee Aliz Corbet"[428].

m ([1115/25]%29 SIBYL Corbet Lady of Alcester and Pontesbury, formerly mistress of HENRY I King of England, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157).

The Complete Peerage deduces her parentage, relationship with King Henry, and her subsequent marriage from a charter, dated to [1163/75], of her son "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" by which he granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage, witnessed by "Nicholao filio meo…Herberto filio Herberti, Baldwino et Ricardo nepotibus meis, Willelmo de Vernun, Willielmo fratre meo…Hugone de Dunstanvill…". The [1125/35] birth date range estimated for her son Herbert, born from this marriage, suggests that she married after her relationship with the king. The Pipe Roll of 1157 records a payment to "the mother of Earl Reginald" from an estate at Mienes, Sussex. Herbert & his wife had [five] children:

a) ROBERT FitzHerbert (-before 1165). Henry II King of England restored properties of "Roberto filio Hereberti Camerarii", held by "pater suus vel avus suus", by charter dated to [Feb/Mar] 1155, witnessed by "…Rainaldo comite Cornubie…Johanne Marescallo"[431]. Chamberlain of King Henry II. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61] and [1161/62][432]. [The 1176/77 Pipe Roll names "Robertus filius Herberti" in Hampshire[433].]

b)HERBERT FitzHerbert [II]

([1125/35]-before 18 Jul 1204).  “Willelmus filius Hugonis de Bridssale” donated property “de feudo Herberti filii Herberti” to Watton convent by charter dated to [1175/95].  His birth date range is estimated based on the latest birth date of his wife, bearing in mind the probable date of birth of his half-brother Renaud Earl of Cornwall and his own date of death. 

- see below.

c) HENRY FitzHerbert (-after 1171). The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti v m ii milites et dimidium" in Wiltshire in [1160/61]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Henricus filius Herberti xx s" in Wiltshire in [1171/72].

d) [WILLIAM (-after 1187). "…Herberto filio Herberti…Willielmo fratre meo…" subscribed the charter, dated to [1163/75], under which "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Willelmus frater comitis Reginaldi" held half of one knight’s fee from "Roberti filii Regis" in Devon. Benedict of Peterborough records that Henry II King of England granted the kingdom of Limerick to "Hereberti filio Hereberti, et Willelmo fratri comitis Reginaldi, et Joellano de la Pumerai nepoti eorum" at a council in Oxford in May 1177, but that "Herbertus et Willelmus, fratres Reginaldi comitis Cornubiæ, et Joellanus de Pumeria nepos eorum" declined it at a council at Marlborough 3 Jun 1177. None of the primary sources so far consulted conclusively indicates whether William was the full brother of Earl Renaud or his half-brother by their mother’s marriage to Herbert FitzHerbert. However, the order in which the individuals are named in the documents quoted above suggests that William was younger than Herbert, in which case it is more likely that he was the uterine brother of the earl. The question has been confused by the possible co-identity between William, brother of Earl Renaud, and Willliam brother of Sibyl Queen of Scotland. However, as discussed in the document ENGLAND KINGS 1066-1603, the chronology is unfavourable for this co-identity to be correct. Henry II King of England confirmed the possessions of the abbey of la Trinité de Caen, including the donation by "Willelmi filii Herberti" of "decimam…in Willun", by charter dated to [1180/82]. m ALICE, daughter of ---. "Willelmus de Marisco frater Reginaldi comitis Cornubie" names his wife Alice in a charter.]

e) [ROHESE (-1176). The parentage of Rohese is uncertain. Renaud Earl of Cornwall granted Roseworthy manor in Cornwall to his sister "Rohesia de Pomeria" in a charter. The wife of Henry de la Pomerai was either Rohese, illegitimate daughter of Henry I King of England & his mistress Sibyl Corbet, or Sibyl’s daughter by her husband Herbert FitzHerbert. m HENRY [I] de la Pomerai, son of JOSCELIN de la Pomerai & his wife Emma --- (-[1156/64]).]

HERBERT FitzHerbert [II]

son of HERBERT FitzHerbert [I] & his wife Sibyl Corbet ([1125/35]-before 18 Jul 1204). 

“Willelmus filius Hugonis de Bridssale” donated property “de feudo Herberti filii Herberti” to Watton convent by charter dated to [1175/95]. His birth date range is estimated based on the latest birth date of his wife, bearing in mind the probable date of birth of his half-brother Renaud Earl of Cornwall and his own date of death. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Herbertus filius Herberti i m" in Wiltshire in [1161/62]. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Herbertus filius Herberti camerarii senioris" used to hold two knights fees in Hampshire now held by "Herbertus filius eius". The 1176/77 Pipe Roll names "Herbertus filius Herberti" in Hampshire. Benedict of Peterborough records that Henry II King of England granted the kingdom of Limerick to "Hereberti filio Hereberti, et Willelmo fratri comitis Reginaldi, et Joellano de la Pumerai nepoti eorum" at a council in Oxford in May 1177, but that "Herbertus et Willelmus, fratres Reginaldi comitis Cornubiæ, et Joellanus de Pumeria nepos eorum" declined it at a council at Marlborough 3 Jun 1177. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Herbertus filius Herbertus" paying "xx s, ii milites" in Berkshire and "x s, i militem" in Wiltshire. The Pipe Roll at Michaelmas 1194 records “Herbertus f Herberti” owing for “legalem portionem suam versus Margaretam de Bohun” also in Gloucestershire: the property in question was presumably inherited from Miles of Gloucester, the father of Margaret de Bohun and of Herbert’s wife. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], names "Herbertus filius Herberti" paying "xxv s, i militem et tertiam" in Hampshire.

m LUCY of Hereford, daughter of MILES of Gloucester Earl of Hereford & his wife Sibylle de Neufmarché (before 1143-[1219/20] or after, bur Lanthony Priory, Gloucester). The Historia fundationis cum fundatoris genealogia of the priory of Abergavenny names “Margaretam, Bertam et Luciam” as the three daughters of “Milonem” & his wife, adding that Lucy married “Herberto filio Hereberti” and inherited “foresta de Dene et aliis terries in Anglia”. King John confirmed the possessions of Lanthony abbey by charter dated 30 Jul 1199, including the donation of "duas partes de Onedesleye" made by "Margar de Bohun", in accordance with the division made "inter ipsam et Luciam sororem suam". The Testa de Nevill lists knights who held land from bishop of Worcester, whose assets had been confiscated by King John, dated to [1208/13]: "Henricus de Boun comes Herefordie et domina Lucia que fuit uxor Herberti filii Herberti" held "manerio in Suham et Brokhamt ii milites…in comitatu Glouc". A feodary of the bishop of Worcester’s estates drawn up in [1219/20] records that "Dame Lucia, widow of Herbert fitz Herbert" held shares in two Gloucestershire manors. A manuscript in Aske’s collections names “Milo…Erle of Herforde, Lord of Bricone and of all the Forest of Done, and also Constable of England…Sibbill wiff of the seid Milo…Luce the third daughter of the seid Milo Erle…” among those buried at Lanthony Priory.

Herbert & his wife had two children:

1. REYNOLD FitzHerbert (-[1190/92]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

2. PIERS FitzHerbert of Blaenllyfni (-1 Jul 1235, bur Reading). The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], records "Petrus filius Herberti" paying "xv s, iii partes [militis]" in Berkshire. The Red Book of the Exchequer records "Petrus filius Herberti" holding one knight’s fee "Manekeford" in Wiltshire, and three in Yorkshire, in [1210/12]. The Red Book of the Exchequer records "Petrus filius Herberti et Willelmus de Boterellis" holding "tres partes" in Warwickshire in [1210/12]. Matthew Paris names “...Petrus filius Hereberti...” among the "consiliarios iniquissimos” of King John. Henry III King of England granted "terris Petri filii Herberti" to "fratri nostro Olivero filio Regis" dated 20 Mar 1217. The Testa de Nevill includes a list of landholdings in Oxfordshire, dated 1219, which includes "Petrus filius Herberti" holding land "in Walinton…hundredo de Puritona". A letter of Henry III King of England to the bishop of Rochester, dated 13 Jun 1230, appointing him to make an assize of arms in Kent, names "Petrus filius Hereberti…Matthæus filius Hereberti" as those charged with a similar exercise in Berkshire and Wiltshire respectively. The Annals of Tewkesbury record the death "Kal Jul" in 1235 of “Petrus filius Hereberti” and his burial at Reading. m firstly (marriage settlement 28 Nov 1203) ALICE, daughter of ROBERT FitzRoger of Warkworth & his wife Margery de Chesney. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m secondly as her second husband, ISABEL de Ferrers, widow of ROGER de Mortimer of Wigmore, daughter of WALKELIN de Ferrers & his wife --- (-before 29 Apr 1252, bur Lechlade). A manuscript narrating the foundation of Wigmore Abbey records that “Isabella…filia domini de Ferrers de Lechlade” was the second wife of “domini Rogeri”, adding that she became a nun “apud Lechelade” and was buried there. “Rogerus de Mortuomari…et dominæ Isabellæ uxoris meæ” donated property to Kington St Michael by undated charter, witnessed by “Philippo de Mortuomari…”. An order dated [Apr] 1225 delayed repayment from "Peter fitz Herbert and Isabella his wife" of a "debt of Henry de Ferrers brother of the same Isabella". King Henry III confirmed inheritance of property by "Henricus de Fraxneto" to "Petro filio Herberti et Isabelle uxori eius" dated [Jun] 1232. Piers & his first wife had two children:

a) HERBERT FitzPiers of Blaenllyfni (-before 27 May 1248). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

b) REYNOLD FitzPiers (-4/5 May 1286). "Reginald son of Peter" was granted rights in "demesne lands in Lechamstede, co. Berks" dated 26 Sep 1257.

- see below.

3. MATTHEW FitzHerbert (-[13 Jun 1230/Feb 1231]). The Red Book of the Exchequer records "Mathaeus filius Herberti" holding one knight’s fee "Stoke" in Wiltshire, and one in Devonshire from "honor Gloucestriæ", in [1210/12]. A letter of Henry III King of England to the bishop of Rochester, dated 13 Jun 1230, appointing him to make an assize of arms in Kent, names "Petrus filius Hereberti…Matthæus filius Hereberti" as those charged with a similar exercise in Berkshire and Wiltshire respectively. Matthew, his wife and descendants are shown by Eyton but the primary sources which confirm the information have not yet been identified. m (before Jun 1200) JOAN Patric, daughter of --- & his wife Mabel Patric[513] (-after 21 Feb 1231). Bracton records a claim, dated 1219, by "Robertus filius Briani, Oliuerus Auenel, Gaufridus Talebot et Adam de Dornapetona" against "Matheum filium Hereberti et Johannam uxorem eius". Matthew & his wife had three children:

a) HERBERT FitzMatthew (-3 or 5 Feb 1245). "Herbert son of Matthew" was granted "the manor of Warblinton, late of Robert de Curcy" dated 10 Jun 1231. "Herbert son of Matthew" was granted "a weekly market…at Emeleswurth…" dated 20 Apr 1239. m MILLICENT Paynell, daughter of WILLIAM Paynell of Bampton, Devon & his wife Alice Briwere (-before 1249). The Complete Peerage states that Herbert FitzMatthew married “Milicent da. and coh. of William Paynel of Bampton, Devon” but does not cite the corresponding primary source. An indication of the connection between the two families is provided by the order dated 4 Feb 1228 under which Henry III King of England granted "custodiam terre et heredis Willelmi Paynel" to "Hereberto filio Mathey" and ordered the sheriff of Devon to release them to him. She must have died childless before 1249 when an inquisitions after her brother’s death name his sister Aude as his heir.

b) PETER FitzMatthew (-1255). Land recovered from "Peter son of Matthew" was regranted dated 18 Aug 1252.

c) JOHN FitzMatthew (-before 19 Jan 1261). A debt of "Peter son of Matthew" was granted, to be received from "John son of Matthew brother and heir of the said Peter son of Matthew" dated 28 Dec 1256[520]. m as her first husband, MARGARET de Berkeley, daughter of THOMAS de Berkeley of Berkeley, Gloucestershire & his wife Joan [de Somery]. She married secondly (before 18 Oct 1265) Ansel Basset of Winford and Saltford, Somerset. John & his wife had one child:

i) MATTHEW FitzJohn (-31 May 1309). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. m ELEANOR, daughter of --- (-after 4 Jul 1325). The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified.

Herbert FitzHerbert obtained from King Henry II confirmation of the landed possessions of his father, and likewise the office of chamberlain.

Herbert was an adult in 1165.

He married Lucia de Gloecestria, daughter of Miles of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford, and Constable of England, and Sibyl de Neufmarché.

Herbert was Sheriff of Gloucester in 1194/95. He was Sheriff of Shropshire in 1196/97.

Herbert died before June 1204. [Mistress (4): ---. The Complete Peerage suggests that the mother of Sibyl Queen of Scotland was Sibyl Corbet[160], who is shown below as Mistress (5). As explained more fully below under her daughter Queen Sibyl, this suggestion is not ideal from a chronological point of view. In summary, Sibyl Corbet´s son, Renaud Earl of Cornwall, was probably not born before [1110] considering that his marriage is dated to [1141]. If that is correct, the only way in which he could have had the same mother as the queen of Scotland would be if the latter was a young girl at the time of her marriage. In addition, the birth of Herbert FitzHerbert, son of Sibyl Corbet by her marriage, is estimated to [1125/35] (see the document UNTITLED ENGLISH NOBILITY D-K), which appears incompatible with Sibyl also having been the mother of Queen Sibyl. On the other hand, "Robert Corbet" witnessed charters in Scotland which are dated to the reign of King Alexander and the early years of the reign of his brother King David (see UNTITLED ENGLISH NOBILITY A-C). If Robert Corbet had been Queen Sibyl´s maternal grandfather or her maternal uncle, this could account for his presence at the Scottish court at the time.] Mistress (5): SIBYL Corbet, daughter of ROBERT Corbet of Alcester, co Warwick & his [first] wife --- ([1090/95]-after 1157). The Complete Peerage deduces her parentage, relationship with King Henry, and her marriage from a charter, dated to [1163/75], under which her son "Reginaldus, Henrici Regis filius, comes Cornubiæ" granted property to "Willielmo de Boterell, filio Aliziæ Corbet, materteræ meæ" which he had granted to "Willielmo de Boterells in Cornubia, patri…predicti Willielmi" on his marriage, witnessed by "Nicholao filio meo…Herberto filio Herberti, Baldwino et Ricardo nepotibus meis, Willelmo de Vernun, Willielmo fratre meo…Hugone de Dunstanvill…"[161]. She married ([1115/25]%29 Herbert FitzHerbert. The [1125/35] birth date range estimated for her son Herbert, born from this marriage, indicates that she married after her relationship with the king. The Pipe Roll of 1157 records a payment to "the mother of Earl Reginald" from an estate at Mienes, Sussex[162].

See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p382.htm#i7190 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )