Hucbald, comte d'Ostrevant et de Senlis

Curator (dvb) Note: The Vexin House as a lineage, appeared at the end of the ix th  century, from the Count Raoul I st of Vexin . [deleted]. The origin of this family is not known, but probably of high lineage, since the mother of the first known member would be a descendant of Louis the Pious .

The first count, Raoul I er is the son of a Heilwis, or Helvide, who remarries in second marriage to the count Roger I er of Laon . This Heilwis is traditionally identified with Heilwis of Frioul, daughter of Eberhard , Marquis of Frioul and of the Carolingian Gisèle . But this identification poses a chronological problem, because born before 850, she would have had at least two children from 895 , which is unlikely.

Another hypothesis has been put forward: Helwis, wife of Roger de Laon, would be the daughter of Hucbald de Gouy and Heilwis de Frioul. Her first husband would be Gautier de Laon , which would explain the appearance of the first name of Gautier among the counts of Vexin.

It is this hypothesis that was used in the reconstruction of this branch of the House of Vexin on Geni. The basis of this reconstruction is onomastics, which is “the study of the history and origin of proper names, especially personal names.” Leading experts Katherine Keats-Rohan and Christian Settipani et. al. have contributed both to this new aspect of genealogical study but also through their studies specifically to this part of “the big tree”. Their work for use in this reconstruction is extracted from https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_Vexin but refer for details to their original work Onomastique et Parenté dans l'Occident médiéval, Oxford, Linacre College, Unit for Prosopographical Research, coll. « Prosopographica et Genealogica / 3 », 2000, 310 p. (ISBN 1-900934-01-9)

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Birth location from entomology study of: Gouy-sous-Bellonne, Pas-de-Calais, Hauts-de-France,

877: Villam Gaugiacum in pago Ostrebanno (Gouy en pays d'Ostrevent) - (Marchiennes cartulary) 1102: Goyacum 13th century: Goy d'Alès Belonne 1429: Gouy 1613: Gouy-en-Ostrevant 1789: Gouy-sous-Bellonne (unchanged since)

http://www.gouysousbellonne.fr/iso_album/ethymologie.pdf

Curator (dvb) note: since the patronymic name “Gouy” was not in use until 1346 it is genealogically incorrect to use the surname “de Gouy” Note that in fmgMedlands Hucbald has no surname. It was not common in medieval Europe to see the use of surnames.

• ********** I place the entry from fmgMedlands here and one can see that the absence of primary sources inhibits a documented genealogical tree, adding import to the need for onomastic studies as referenced above. Cawley does make one statement that alludes to the addition of a generation as suggested by the hypothesis stating that “ It appears more likely that the family relationship was one generation further back”.

HUCBALD, son of --- (-after 890). Comte [d'Ostrevent]. m [as her first husband,] HEILWIG [of Friulia], daughter of EBERHARD Duke of the March of Friulia [Unruochingi] & his wife Gisela [Carolingian]. The primary source which confirms her name has not been identified. This marriage is confirmed by Flodoard’s Historia Remensis Ecclesiæ which names “Hucboldus...sororis...Rodulfi maritus”[581]. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines names "Hucbaldus de Hainacq" as "huius [=abbas Rodulfus] sororius"[582]. The information appears to be corroborated by a later passage in the same source which records that "comes Rodulfus" (referring to Heilwig's grandson) was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[583]. It appears chronologically unlikely for any of King Louis's sisters, whose dates of birth can be estimated to [908/17], to have been the mother of Raoul [II] who was killed in battle in 944, presumably when he was already adult. It appears more likely that the family relationship was one generation further back, and that a member of the Unruochingi family, descended from the sister of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks and who originated in the same area in northern France, would provide a good match. She maybe married secondly (after 890) Roger [I] Comte de Laon. Her supposed second marriage is shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[584]. The primary source on which this is based has not been identified and from a chronological point of view it seems unlikely to be correct. Another table in Europäische Stammtafeln only names the wife of Comte Roger as "Helvide" but does not give her origin[585].

• ********** Curator (dvb) note: see the comment attached to the coat of arms for an explanation of how I arrived at it and why I use it here
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Older sourcing: ————————————————————-

-https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hucbald_de_Gouy

-http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm#HucbaldOsterv...
Two siblings, parents not known:

1. HUCBALD, son of --- (-after 890). Comte [d'Ostrevant].

m [as her first husband,] HEILWIG [of Friulia], daughter of EBERHARD Duke of the March of Friulia [Unruochingi] & his wife Gisela [Carolingian]. ... ... ...

Chapter 8. COMTES d'OSTREVANT http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm

The county of Ostrevant originally formed part of the pagus Atrebatensis. It was bound to the north by the river Scarpe, and to the east and south by the rivers Escaut and Sensée[842]. It lay east of Douai and west of Valenciennes, within the territory of the west Frankish kingdom. It is not known who governed the county after the death of Raoul [II] in 944 until the late 11th century when it was held by the seigneurs de Ribemont, who were also châtelains de Valenciennes (see HAINAUT).

1. HUCBALD, son of --- (-after 890). Comte [d'Ostrevant].

m as her first husband, HEILWIG [of Friulia], daughter of EBERHARD Duke of the March of Friulia [Unruochingi] & his wife Gisela [Carolingian]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. This marriage is confirmed by the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines which names "Hucbaldus de Hainacq" as "huius [=abbas Rodulfus] sororius"[843]. It appears to be corroborated by a later passage in the same source which records that "comes Rodulfus" (referring to Heilwig's grandson) was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[844]. It appears chronologically unlikely for any of King Louis's sisters, whose dates of birth can be estimated to [908/17], to have been the mother of Raoul [II] who was killed in battle in 944, presumably when he was already adult. It appears more likely that the family relationship was one generation further back, and that a member of the Unruochingi family, descended from the sister of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks and who originated in the same area in northern France, would provide a good match. Nevertheless, the earlier primary source on which Alberic based his information has not yet been identified and it is possible that the source is inaccurate in its report. She maybe married secondly (after 890) Roger [I] Comte de Laon. Her second marriage is shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[845] but the primary source on which this is based has not been identified. Another table in Europäische Stammtafeln only names the wife of Comte Roger as "Helvide" but does not give her origin[846].

Comte Hucbald & his wife had one child: a) RAOUL [I] (-926).

Huchald or Hucbald Gouy , died after 890 , was a count of Ostrevent and Senlis .

The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines also appointed ' Hucbaldus of Hainacq . We do not know much about his origins and his life. He married Heilwis Friuli (v. 855 v †. 895 ), daughter of Eberhard or Evrard , marquis of Friuli and the Carolingian Gisele , herself the daughter of the Emperor Louis the Pious and Judith of Bavaria . From this marriage, he would have two son:

Raoul , who was Earl of Ostrevant and Vexin , Amiens and Valois a son whose name is not known, which could be Guy, Count of Senlis, married to a woman from the counts of Vermandois and father of Bernard, Count of Senlis, cited in 945 a count Hucbald, Udalric father, bishop of Augsburg 929-977 He also had a sister, mother Herivé († 922), Archbishop of Reims from 900 to 922 and Eudes.

His widow remarried Roger I st († 867 to 926), Count of Laon .

Historical and genealogical information hypothetical. Some historical and genealogical information contained in this article are hypothetical, because of the scarcity of documents at that time. On the other hand, knowledge and assumptions about the nobility of the High Middle Ages change relatively quickly and the content of this article may be outdated by new discoveries.