Ly-sze Si Zhou 周 (född Chou)

This profile is cut from King You of Zhou.

For a more clearly formatted presentation, go to the page from which the overview was copied and then pasted at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id...

• ID: I30600
• Name: Attila "Scourge of God" the HUN , King of Huns 1 2
• Sex: M
• Birth: ABT 400 in Romania
• Death: 453 in Hungary 1 2
• Event: Ruled 437-453 1

Note: Below are several versions (all of which are probably "legendary" & unproven) of a descent from Attila the Hun, I personally prefer the 1st one by David Hughes.

David Hughes, in a post to SGM, 18 Feb 2003, gives three different descents from Attilla the Hun (the Tsars of Bulgaria, The Kings of Hungary, and Charlemagne); all three are "rumoured" to have descents, according to several postings on SGM, but David gives the most reasonable-seeming full descents (unfortunately David does not indicate his sources, caveat emptor):

From: david hughes (RdavidH218 AT Aol.com) Subject: Re: Attila the Hun Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Date: 2003-02-18 10:11:27 PST

I am curious about the sudden interest in Attila The Hun & the genealogy of his house. . . for what it is worth here are my notes on the subject for consideration:

   x. Donaton, King of Huns [1], enters Europe, circa AD 360, issue, three sons:

   a. Basiq, King of Huns [2], d c 370

   b. Balamber, King of Huns [3], attacks Byzantine empire, d 390

   c. Uldin (Uldes), King of Huns [4] 390-411

   the two sons of Uldin [4] (above) were

   a. Karaton (Charaton), King of Huns [5] 411-?, the father of Octar,

   King of Huns [6]

   b. Kuridak

   the two sons of Prince Kuridak (above) were

   a. Rugila, King of Huns [7] ?-433

   b. Mundzuk

   the two sons of Prince Mundzuk (above) were

   a. Bleda, King of Huns [8] 433-437

   b. ATTILA

   - - - - - - - -

   x. ATTILA "THE HUN" & "The Scourge", King of Huns [9] 437-453 had several wives: =1 Arykan; =2 Helche (Kreka); =3 Kriemhilt; =4 Ildiko (Hildiko); =5 Gundrun [note: a German myth says that his Burgundian wife, Gundrun, murdered her twin sons, Erpe & Eiti, begotten by him, and served their hearts for Attila to eat]

   issue:

   a. Scharpfe, murdered 453

   b. Ortelipe, murdered 453

   [note: the sons of ATTILA quarreled after his death over the chieftainship, during which, Ardaric, the Gepidae king, rallied the Germans against their Hunnish masters and utterly defeated the Huns at the Battle of Nedao, 456, after which the remnant of the Huns gathered around the sons & grandsons of Attila "the Hun", creating several groups, of which some remained in Germany and Central Europe while others retreated to Scythia-Minor and became the Magyars, Bulgars, & Mongols]

   c. Ellak, King of Huns [10] 453-456 [possibly the father of Aella of Sussex & Alesa of Wessex]

   d. Tuldila, King of Huns [11] 456-7

   e. Dengizec, King of Huns [12] 457-469, the father of Oulibus (d469)

   f. Sengilac, the father of Sunigila (daughter), wife of Odovacar, a Teutonic chieftain, conquered the Roman Empire & became King of Italy 476-493

   g. Emnetzur

   h. Ultzindur

   i. Elpfrat

   j. Tingiz

   k. Bel-Kermek (475), father of Djurash "Masgut" (498/499), father of Tatra (Baltavar) (550s), father of Boyan-Chelbir (d590), father of Tubdjak, King of Magna-Bulgaria (620), father of (a) Bu-Yurgan (Organas) & (b) Alburi (d632), father of Kubrat, 1st King of Bulgaria 632-651 [note: Kubrat is called the "son" of Organus in one source, and called his "nephew" in another source, as the son of his brother, Alburi]

   l. Ernak [called Attila's "youngest son"], King of Huns [13] 469-476

   m. Escam (Ascama) (daughter), wife of Ardaric, a Gepidae chief/king

   issue of Ernak [13] (above) were

   a. Gordas, King of Huns [14] 493-527

   b. Dullo (Dubla)

   c. Zeliorbes, King of Huns [15] 530s, wars vs. Justinian The Great

   d. Chaba (Chola) (530), father of Edus (Elus) (560), father of Kadiha (590), father of Chazew (620), father of Kulchug (650), father of Edur (680), father of Vegerus (Vegecus) (710), father of Elendus (740), father of Avarius (770), father of Venedobel (800), father of Ogyek (830), father of Almos (860), father of Arpad, 1st King of Hungary 896-907

   e. Gheism (d535), the father of Mundio (d535)

   issue of Prince Dullo (Dubla) (above) was

   a. Avarius, King of Huns [16] (mid-500s), accepted Pannonia [Hungary] from Lombard King Albion [who invaded Italy] & re-conquered Germany 568

   issue of Avarius [16] (above) were

   a. Chaganus, last King of Huns [17], invaded Thrace 593; wasted the Balkans 611; the father of two sons, who were executed by Priscus in AD 601; led remnant of Huns to Scythia-Minor

   b. Schzarus

   - - - - - - - -

   note: the descent-line from Attila The Hun to Charlemagne posted recently on the net is incorrect, however, the descent can be made through the wife of Pepin of Landen rather than through his mother, which then would be:

   00. Attila The Hun (d453)

   01. Escam (Ascama) = Ardaric, Gepidae-King of Germany (d476)

   02. Elemund (d493/515)

   03. Austrisa = Waccho, Lombard-King of Italy (d540)

   04. Walderade =1 Theudebald, King of France 548-555 [note: she =2

   Clothaire I of France; & =3 Garibald I of Bavaria]

   05. Grimoalde, Duke of Aquitaine (d599) = Itite (d612), daughter of

   Severus, a duke

   06. Itte (Idoberge) (d652) = Pepin [I] of Landen (d639)

   07. Begga (d694) = Ansgise (d685)

   08. Pepin [II] of Heristal (d714) =2 Aupais

   09. Charles "Martel", Duke of France 737-741 =1 Rotrude

   10. Pepin "Le Korte", King of France 751-768 = Bertha "The White-Lady"

   11. Charlemagne

   <nowiki>-------------------------------------------------</nowiki>

   The following post, 23 May 1998, by William Reitwiesner, gives a pedigree back to Atilla the Hun & and way past him to the Chou dynasty in China! Undoubtedly it is not super accurate and debatable whether it is even likely (some on SGM did think it likely that the later Magyar rulers of Hungary may have had a tie to Attila, others not):

   From: William Addams Reitwiesner (wrei AT erols.com)

   Subject: Re: Magyar kings to Attila the Hun

   Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval

   Date: 1998/05/23

   doug AT dholmes.com (Doug Holmes) wrote:

   >

   >Can anyone describe this supposed connection via the Magyar kings to

   >Attila? I've never seen such an attempt.

   It's a howl. The only version I've seen was in *Die Ahnen von Irene Prinzessin zu Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg*, which was typed by a Dr. Schilling in 1947 in Glücksburg and is retained in the archives there. The line is on pp. 206-217, and it doesn't just stop at Attila. It goes like this (most recent people first and then going backwards, not translated from the German):

   Elisabeth die Heilige (+1231) m 1221 Ludwig VI Landgraf von Thüringen

   Andreas II, König von Ungarn, 1205-1235

   Bela III, ungarischer König, reg 1173-1196

   Geysa III, König von Ungarn, 1141-1161

   Bela II der Blinde, König von Ungarn, reg 1131-1141

   Almos +1129

   Ladislaus I der Heilige, König von Ungarn, reg 1077-1095

   Bela I, König von Ungarn, reg 1060-1063

   Ladislaus der Kahle, ungarischer Prinz, * nach 975

   Michael, madjarischer Fürst, * um 950

   Toxus, madjarischer Fürst, reg 920-nach 955, * um 900

   Zultan III, madjarischer Fürst, * um 870

   Arpad, madjarischer Fürst, reg 890-907

   Almos II, hunnischer Fürst

   Elend

   Veget

   Veger

   Edur II

   Sultan II

   Almos II

   Kulchug

   Chazew

   Kadiha

   Edus I

   Chaba, hunnischer Fürst

   Attila (gennant Godegisil), hunnischer grosschan, starb 453

   Bendekuz gennant Mundiuch, Fürst der Hunnen

   Turda, Fürst der Hunnen

   Szemen

   Ethei

   Oposch

   Kadcha

   Berend

   Zultan I

   Bulchu

   Bolug

   Zemtur

   Zamur

   Leel

   Zevent

   Kulche

   Ompud

   Mirka

   Mike

   Beztur (Baktur), Grosschan der Hunnen, reg 209-174 v.Zw.

   Budli

   Chamad

   Bukem

   Bondefard

   Tarkens

   Othmar

   Kadar

   Biler

   Kear

   Kave

   Kaled

   Dama

   Bor, Herrscher der Hunnen

   ================================================================

   Bor's wife, and mother of Dama, is given as Ly-sze, daughter of the Chinese Emperor Yu-Wang (reigned 781-771 v.Zw. -- note that "v.Zw." means "B.C."). Yu-Wang was an Emperor of the Chou dynasty. The line back from Ly-sze is given by Schilling as follows:

   ================================================================

   Ly-sze, Kaiserliche prinzessin von China aus der dynastie Tschou

   Yu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 781-771 v.Zw.

   Hsüan-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 827-782 v.Zw.

   Li-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 878-827 v.Zw.

   Tscheng, kaiserlicher prinz von China

   Tschi-fah, kaiserlicher prinz von China

   Mu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1001-957 v.Zw.

   Tung, Chinesischer Prinzregent

   Kang-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1078-1052 v.Zw.

   Tscheng-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1115-1078 v.Zw.

   (Fah-)Wu-wang, Chinesischer Kaiser, reg 1135-1115 v.Zw., Begründer der Dritten Dynastie: Tschou

   (Tschang-)Wen-wang, König von Tschou und Tschin, reg 1168-1135 v.Zw.

   (Tscheng-)I-wang, Grosskönig von Tschou, reg 1195-1168 v.Zw.

   Li-wah, Königlicher Prinz der Tschou und Tschin, u 1200 v.Zw.

   Kilik, Herzog von Tschou

   Tschan-fu, Herzog von Tschou

   Tan-fu, Herzog von Tschou, machte sich 1327 v.Zw.

   ==================================================================

   And there Schilling stops, though not without the helpful information that Tan-fu is in the 103rd generation back from Princess Irene, and that he is her ancestor number 11,180,164,869,262,022,086,263,635,968 (using the standard Kekule method of ancestor numbering).

   In case anybody is gasping in shock or horror, I'm not endorsing any of this descent (at least not before Almos, d. 1129), I'm just reporting what I've found. I didn't notice if Schilling said where he found the descent.

   William Addams Reitwiesner

   wrei AT erols.com

   "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.

   <nowiki>-------------------------------------------------</nowiki>

   The following gives two brief, undoubtedly legendary, lines from Attila the Hun.

   From: Henry Soszynski (zzhsoszy AT uq.net.au)

   Subject: Re: Atilla the Hun

   Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval

   Date: 2003-01-22 14:49:48 PST

   AFAIK There are no verifiable descents from A the H, nowever that's not going to stop me posting the following.

   Attila->Irnac->[?generation]->Mugel->Chinial +c555->Zabergan->[?generation]->Kubrat +642 IIRC (this is the line of the Kutrigur Khans) and Kubrat was the ancestor of some of the early rulers of Bulgaria, many question marks and dotted lines).

   Attila->Chaba->Edus->Vegecus->Elendus->Almus->Ugyck->Almos->Arpad (founder of the Arpad dynasty of Hungary)

   Cheers,

   Henry

   INDIAN PRINCELY STATES

HintsAncestry Hints for Attila "Scourge of God" the HUN , King of Huns

   1 possible matches found on Ancestry.com	Ancestry.com

Father: Mundzuk Prince of the HUNS b: ABT 377 in Romania

Marriage 1 Gundrun a BURGUNDIAN b: ABT 420 in France

   Married: in 5th wife 1

Children

   Has Children Ernak King of HUNS b: ABT 445 in Hungary

Marriage 2 Arykan b: ABT 400 in Romania

   Married: in 1st wife 1

Marriage 3 Helche (Kreka) b: ABT 405 in Romania

   Married: in 2nd wife 1

Marriage 4 Ildiko (Hildiko) b: ABT 415 in Romania

   Married: in 4th wife 1

Children

   Has Children Escam (Ascama) Princess of the HUNS b: ABT 440 in Hungary

Marriage 5 Kriemhilt b: ABT 410 in Romania

   Married: in 3rd wife 1

Children

   Has Children Bel-Kermek Prince of the HUNS b: ABT 430 in Hungary

Sources:

   Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com

   Page: David Hughes, 18 Feb 2003

   Title: Encyclopedia Britannica, Treatise on

   Page: Attila