Matching family tree profiles for Marie de Meulan
About Marie de Meulan
Marie de Meulan
daughter of Waleran de Beaumont
WALERAN de Beaumont, son of ROBERT de Beaumont-le-Roger Comte de Meulan, Earl of Leicester & his wife Elisabeth de Vermandois [Capet] (1104-Préaux 9/10 Apr 1166, bur Préaux, monastery of Saint-Pierre). His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis, who specifies that he was the twin of his brother Robert. He succeeded his father as Comte de Meulan, and to his fiefs in Normandy. He and his twin brother were brought up at the court of Henry I King of England. He rebelled against King Henry, with his brothers-in-law Hugues de Montfort, Hugues de Châteauneuf and Guillaume Louvel, but was captured at the siege of Vatteville 26 Mar 1124. The king confiscated his lands and held him in prison for five years, successively at Rouen, Bridgenorth and Wallingford, until 1129. After the accession of King Stephen in 1135, Waléran supported the king who created him Earl of Worcester in 1138. However, he fled at the battle of Lincoln 2 Feb 1141 and came to an agreement with Geoffroy Comte d'Anjou who gave him the castle of Montfort-sur-Risle. "Gualeran comes Mellensis" confirmed his foundation of a chapel "at Watteville before the gates of his castle" by charter dated [1154/55], witnessed by his sons Robert and Gualeran and his wife Agnes. Robert of Torigny records that "Gualerannus comes Mellenti" became "monachus Pratelli" in 1166. Betrothed to (Easter 1136) MATHILDE de Blois, daughter of STEPHEN King of England & his wife Mathilde Ctss de Boulogne ([1133/34]-before 1141, bur Priory of Holy Trinity, Aldgate Without, London). Daughter of King Stephen, Orderic Vitalis records her betrothal when she was "two years old" but does not name her. The Chronicon Valassense names "comes Mellenti Gualerannus" and "uxore sua regis Stephani familia". William of Newburgh records her burial, together with that of her brother Baudouin, as "children of King Stephen and Queen" and wife of "comitis de Medlint", quoting the records of Holy Trinity. m (1141) AGNES de Montfort, daughter of AMAURY [III] de Montfort Comte d'Evreux & his second wife Agnès de Garlande (-15 Dec 1181). Robert of Torigny refers to the wife of "Gualerannus comes Mellenti" as "sorore Simonis comitis Ebroicensis" but does not name her. "G comes Mellenti et A comitissa uxor mea" donated property to Notre-Dame de la Trappe by undated charter. Her brother gave her Gournay-sur-Marne as her marriage portion. "Agnes comitissa Mell." donated property "haia de Lintot" to the monastery of Montvilliers for the soul of "Almarici comitis ebroicensis patris mei…[et]…comitis Mell. Gual. domini mei…et Roberti filii mei" by undated charter. "Gualeran comes Mellensis" confirmed his foundation of a chapel "at Watteville before the gates of his castle" by charter dated [1154/55], witnessed by his sons Robert and Gualeran and his wife Agnes.
Comte Waléran & his wife had nine children:
1. ROBERT de Beaumont (-[16 Aug or 20 Sep] 1208 or after, bur Préaux). "Gualeran comes Mellensis" confirmed his foundation of a chapel "at Watteville before the gates of his castle" by charter dated [1154/55], witnessed by his sons Robert and Gualeran and his wife Agnes. Robert of Torigny records that "filius eius Robertus" succeeded "Gualerannus comes Mellenti" when he became a monk in 1166. He succeeded his father in 1166 as Comte de Meulan. "R comes de Mellento" confirmed the donation of "nobilis vir Galerannus comes pater meus" to Notre-Dame de la Trappe by undated charter. "Robertus comes Mellenti" confirmed donations to Gournay Sainte-Marie made by "pater meus Galerannus comes et mater mea Agnes", in the presence of "Willelmus de Garlanda, Robertus Malusvicinus et Drogo de Mello fratres, Willelmus Malusvicinus, Manasses frater eius…", by undated charter dated to after 1166. "Robertus comes Mellenti" donated property to Notre-Dame du Bon-Port by charter dated to , signed by "Petrus filius meus". "Robertus comes Mellenti" donated property to Notre-Dame du Bon-Port by charter dated 1192, signed by "Henricus filius meus…". He experienced major difficulties in balancing the interests of Normandy, France and England, as landholder in all three jurisdictions. Eventually Philippe II King of France seized all his estates in France and John King of England all those in England. Thomas Stapleton, in his "Observations on the Great Rolls of the Exchequer of Normandy", records that Robert Comte de Meulan devised his lands in Normandy and England "ex toto to Mabiria wife of William Earl of the Isle and to have them confirmed to [her], as to his next heir [tanquam heredi meo propinquiori]", by charter dated 1 May 1204 "copied into the cartulary of Beaulieu in the forest of Préaux near Rouen", witnessed by "John de Préaux, William de Préaux…". Thomas Stapleton states that Comte Robert, after he divested himself of all his lands, "was alive at the close of the year 1207" (without citing the corresponding primary source) and that his "obit…was kept on the 20th Sept by the monks of Préaux and on the 16th Aug by those of St Nicaise de Meulan". m () MATILDA of Cornwall, daughter of RAINALD de Dunstanville Earl of Cornwall & his wife Beatrice FitzWilliam. Robert of Torigny records the marriage of "filius eius [Gualeranni comitis Mellenti] Robertus" and "filiam Rainaldi comitis Cornubiensis" but does not name her. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified. Comte Robert & his wife had [six] children: a) WALERAN [V] de Meulan (-Palestine [1190/91]). "Galerannus filius Roberti comes Mellentis" donated property to Notre-Dame du Bon-Port by charter dated to . He was killed during the Fourth Crusade. m (contract 1189) as her second husband, MARGUERITE de Fougères, widow of GUILLAUME Bertran, daughter of RAOUL Seigneur de Fougères & his wife Mathilde ---. The marriage contract between “Galeranum filium Roberti comitis Mellenti” and “Margaritam filiam Radulfi de Feugeriis” is dated 1189, and names her first husband “Willelmo Bertranno”. [- SEIGNEURS de COURSEULLES-sur-MER.] b) PIERRE de Meulan (-[May/Oct] 1203). "Robertus comes Mellenti" donated property to Notre-Dame du Bon-Port by charter dated to , signed by "Petrus filius meus". An anonymous continuation of the Chronicle of Robert of Mont-Saint-Michel records that "Petrus de Mellento, filius Roberti Comitis Mellentini" defected to the French king with "castrum Bellimontis" in 1203, but died soon after. Deacon at Wimborne. c) HENRY de Meulan (-before 1204). "Robertus comes Mellenti" donated property to Notre-Dame du Bon-Port by charter dated 1192, signed by "Henricus filius meus…". d) MABILE de Meulan ([1166/72]-after 1 May 1204). Her marriage date is estimated from the marriage date of her daughter Mary. Thomas Stapleton, in his "Observations on the Great Rolls of the Exchequer of Normandy", records that Robert Comte de Meulan devised his lands in Normandy and England "ex toto to Mabiria wife of William Earl of the Isle and to have them confirmed to [her], as to his next heir [tanquam heredi meo propinquiori]", by charter dated 1 May 1204 "copied into the cartulary of Beaulieu in the forest of Préaux near Rouen", witnessed by "John de Préaux, William de Préaux…". The Fundationis et Fundatorum Historia of Forde Abbey names “Mabilia comitissa” as the wife of ”Willielmum de Vernona”. “Willielmus de Vernon comes Devoniæ et filius comitis Baldewini” donated property to Quarr Abbey, for the souls of “…et uxoris meæ Mabiliæ comitissæ”, by undated charter. m ([1178/86]) WILLIAM de Vernon Earl of Devon, son of BALDWIN de Reviers Earl of Devon & his first wife Adelisa --- (-8 or 10 Sep 1217, bur Christ Church, Twynham). e) AGNES [Jeanne] de Meulan . Her parentage and marriage are confirmed by the undated charter under which "Guido de Roca" confirmed donations to Saint-Nigaise de Meulan made "ab antecessoribus Roberti comitis Mellenti" which "comes predictus" had given him (“decimam...molendini...et decem solidos apud villam...Vallis”) “quando filiam eiusdem in uxorem duxi”. “Guido de Rupe...Agnes uxor mea...et Guido filius meus” donated property “de nemore de Taleboth” to Jumièges by charter dated [21 Apr 1185/12 Apr 1186], witnessed by “Guazone de Pissiaco...”. Another document indicates that Guy´s wife was named Jeanne: Guy de la Roche donated salt "sur son péage de la Roche" to Joyenval abbey, for the soul of "son âme et celle de Jehanne sa défunte épouse" to "Johanni de Aubergenvilla de Mellento", with the consent of “Dne Margarite uxoris mee”, by charter dated Mar 1222. Presumably this indicates either that one or other document is in error concerning the name or that Jeanne was a second wife the record of whose marriage has not yet been found. m GUY [IV] Seigneur de la Roche-Guyon, son of ---. f) [JEANNE de Meulan (-[before 1186]). Many secondary sources name Jeanne de Meulan as the wife of Robert [II] Seigneur d´Harcourt. This can be traced back to La Roque who states that “Jeanne de Meullent Dame d´Elbeuf…Dame de Beaumesnil, de Sainct Celerin et autres seigneuries”, daughter of Robert [II] Comte de Meulan and his wife, married “[son cousin]…Robert 2. Baron de Harcourt dit le Vaillant…par dispense”. La Roque adds that “ailleurs il est dit que Galeran Comte de Meulent en execution de la volonté du Comte Robert de Meulent son pere, consentit que Jeanne de Meulent sa sœur eust les seigneuries cy-dessus et donna de son chef à Richard de Harcourt son neveu, fils aisné de Jeanne de Meulent, la seigneurie d´Elbeuf, en reconnoissant toujours qu´ils estoient de la mesme race et de mesme sang”. He cites no source which supports this statement nor provides the basis for the proposed marriage. The issue is to decide whether there could be any validity at all for this alleged marriage. Thomas Stapleton, in his "Observations on the Great Rolls of the Exchequer of Normandy", dismisses La Roque´s position as unsupported. He traces the ownership of Elbœuf as providing one approach to testing the question. Stapleton quotes three documents relating to Elbœuf: firstly, the marriage contract between Waléran, son of Robert [II] Comte de Meulan, and Marguerite de Fougères, dated 1189, under which Marguerite received dower including "100 livres in Elbœuf i.e. in land and men…and [if] Waléran [died], Marguerite his wife to have her dower in its entirety"; secondly, John King of England directed the bailiffs of the Lieuvin, Vaudreuil and La Londe, by writs dated 7 Feb and 12 Feb 1203, "to cause Richard d´Harcourt to have…the land which had belonged to Margaret filia Willelmi de Feuferiis" and "to have the rent qui fuit Margarete uxoris quondam Walerani de Mellent, sororis Willelmi de Feugeriis, que est cum Britonibus"; thirdly, King John, dated 28 May 1203, made known that Robert [II] Comte de Meulan "had pledged all his land in Normandy to Us", that it would revert to Robert if the king predeceased him "except Elbœuf…which he hath granted to Richard d´Harcourt by Our consent". Stapleton assumes that Marguerite de Fougères, widow of Waléran de Meulan, was dispossessed by King John. Marguerite is stated to be "with the Bretons" ("cum Britonibus") in the source dated 12 Feb 1203. These events occurred during the critical period before and after the murder of Arthur Duke of Brittany (killed 3 Apr 1203), so such dispossession is plausible as part of the king´s operations against Brittany. On the other side of the argument, the 28 May 1203 source states that Comte Robert [II] had granted Elbœuf to Richard d´Harcourt with the king´s consent, a point on which the 7 Feb and 12 Feb orders are silent. If the transfer was a voluntary one, a close family relationship between Robert [II] de Meulan and Richard d´Harcourt would provide the best explanation for the grant. However, in that case, Robert de Meulan must have been complicit in depriving his own daughter-in-law of her dower before making the transfer. Such a scenario is unlikely as relations between Robert and the king were poor: an order of King John dated 2 Apr 1203 assured "R. com Melleti" that the king would end all bad feelings (“perdonavimus vobis omnem iram et malivolentiam que habemus adversus vos”) if he visited before the end of the Easter period ("si venitis ad nos infra claus Pasch pxim") and granted him safe passage. The result was the 28 May 1203 order proclaiming Robert´s pledge of his lands to the king, which sounds anything but voluntary. That document, as quoted by Stapleton, states no Meulan/Harcourt family relationship and Stapleton takes this omission as indicating that no family connection existed. Although there are numerous examples of transfers between relatives where the documents are silent on the actual relationship, the omission is telling in this case. Stapleton also cites the charter dated 1 May 1204, under which Robert Comte de Meulan devised his lands "ex toto to Mabiria wife of William Earl of the Isle and to have them confirmed to [her], as to his next heir [tanquam heredi meo propinquiori]". He suggests that "tanquam heredi meo propinquiori" indicates that none of Comte Robert´s other children had surviving issue (which would mean that Richard d´Harcourt could not have been Comte Robert´s grandson). The phrase also covers the situation where there were surviving grandchildren, with Mabile being his only surviving child who was more closely related to him ("propinquiori") by one generation than the grandchildren. Such grandchildren would include the issue of Robert´s deceased son Waléran by Marguerite de Fougères, and so the 1 May 1204 decision could have formed part of the king´s repression of Breton sympathisers. In conclusion, political circumstances at the time suggest that the transfer of Elbœuf to Richard d´Harcourt took place against the wishes of the Meulan family, which in turn suggests that they were not related and that the alleged marriage of [Jeanne] de Meulan never took place. While it is impossible to conclude definitively on the likelihood of La Roque being correct, his work contains many inaccuracies and is not reliable, as noted elsewhere in the present document. By way of footnote, if the daughter of Robert [II] Comte de Meulan did marry Robert [II] Seigneur d´Harcourt, the chronology indicates that she would have been his first wife. In addition, it is likely that her name was not Jeanne in light of the contradictory sources which refer to the wife of Guy de la Roche-Guyon, another possible daughter of Robert de Meulan, as explained in more detail above. m [as his first wife,] ROBERT [II] "le Vaillant" Seigneur d'Harcourt, son of GUILLAUME Seigneur d´Harcourt & his wife --- (-).]
2. WALERAN de Meulan . "Gualeran comes Mellensis" confirmed his foundation of a chapel "at Watteville before the gates of his castle" by charter dated [1154/55], witnessed by his sons Robert and Gualeran and his wife Agnes. Canon at Rouen 1173/1181.
3. AMAURY de Meulan (-before 1196). "Amalricus et Rogerus fratres mei" witnessed the undated charter of "R comes de Mellento" which confirmed the donation of "nobilis vir Galerannus comes pater meus" to Notre-Dame de la Trappe. Seigneur de Gournay-sur-Marne et de la Queue. "Amalricus de Gornaio" donated property previously owned by "Agnes comitissa mater eius, Rogerius frater ipsius Amalrici et Aales uxor eius" to the priory of Notre-Dame by charter dated [1182/86]. m as her second husband, ALIX Dame de Luzarches, widow of MATHIEU [II] Comte de Beaumont-sur-Oise, daughter of --- (-6 Jan ----). 1161/1186. "Adeleidis comitissa quondam de Bellomonte nunc autem de Gornaio domina" donated property to the church of St Marie de Gournay by charter dated [1186/87], witnessed by "Matheus et Johannes filii predicte comitisse". The primary source which confirms her origin has not yet been identified. The Necrologium Bellimontense records the death “VI Id Jan” of “Aales mater Johannis comitis Bellimontis”. - SEIGNEURS de GOURNAY-sur-MARNE et de la QUEUE.
4. ROGER de Meulan (-12 Jul ----). "Amalricus et Rogerus fratres mei" witnessed the undated charter of "R comes de Mellento" which confirmed the donation of "nobilis vir Galerannus comes pater meus" to Notre-Dame de la Trappe. "Rogerius de Mellento" donated property with the consent of "Ysabel uxoris mee" to Notre-Dame de Gournay in memory of "patris mei comitis Galeranni et matris mee et fratrum meorum" by charter dated 1 Jan/29 Mar 1187 or 1 Jan/17 Apr 1188. Vicomte d'Evreux until 1204. 1205. The necrology of the monastery of Saint-Leufroy records the death "22 Jul" of "Dominus Rogerius de Mellent miles". m (before 1190) ELISABETH Dame d'Aubergenville, daughter of --- (-24 May ----). The primary source which confirms her origin has not yet been identified. 1205. The necrology of the monastery of Saint-Leufroy records the death "24 May" of "Isabel uxor Rogeri de Mellent". - SEIGNEURS d'AUBERGENVILLE.
5. RAOUL de Meulan . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. 1165/1182.
6. ETIENNE de Meulan . The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. 1165.
7. ISABELLE de Meulan (-10 May 1220, bur Savigny). Henry II King of England confirmed a donation to Savigny by "Ysabell filie Gualerandi comitis de Mellento", with the consent of "filiis suis Juhello…filio Gaufridi de Meduana, et Mauricio et Petro, filiis Mauricii de Creon", by charter dated to [Apr 1180/Jan 1183]. "Mauricius de Creon Hugonis filius" donated property to Roë by charter dated 23 Jun 1191, witnessed by "…Guillelmo de Guierchia et Isabel uxore mea et filiis meis Mauricio et Petro…". Her two marriages are confirmed by the undated charter by which her son "Mauritius dominus Credoni" confirmed the donation by "Constantia soror mea" of revenue set by "dominus Juhellus frater meus" at "apud Harperiam" to the abbey of Clarei, by undated charter, witnessed by "…domina Isabel matre mea, domina Gervasia…". "Mauritius de Credone filius Hugonis" appointed "meæ uxoris Isabel" as guardian of his lands and his children in his undated testament when leaving for Jerusalem. The Gesta Guillelmi Majoris Andegavensis Episcopi names “dominis de Credonio…et Isabella Domina de Credonio” among those present at the burial of Bishop Guillaume, undated but stated to be during the reign of Philippe II King of France. The Chronicon Savigniacensis Monasterii records the death in 1220 of "Juhellus de Meduana…domina Isabel mater eius". The necrology of Angers Cathedral records the death "Kal Mai" of "Isabellis domina de Credonio". m firstly () as his second wife, GEOFFROY Seigneur de Mayenne, son of JUHEL Seigneur de Mayenne & his wife Clémence de Ponthieu (-18 Feb or 25 Jul 1169). m secondly () MAURICE [II] Seigneur de Craon, son of HUGUES Seigneur de Craon & his second wife Isabelle de Vitré (-12 Jul 1196).
8. MARIE de Meulan . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m HUE Talbot Baron de Cleuville Seigneur de Hotot-sur-Meretc.
9. AMICIE de Meulan . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m HENRI Seigneur de Ferrières, son of ---
Marie de Meulan and her connection to Valeran (Galeran) III de Meulan as daughter, and to Hugh de Talbot as wife is listed in the Celtic Casimir online family tree, but the connection to Valeran (Galeran) III de Meulan is not shown in Galeran's French Wikipedia entry.
Still the connections are suggested as possible in Lazurus Long's ancestors page - as daughter, her birth date is listed as 1005, and as wife, as 1008 (at the same time, this may indicate that these are not the same person).
From Lazarus Long's ancestors:
Count Of Meulan Waleran DE MEULAN7,37,45,70,102,105,115,117,262,377,378,838 was born in 990 in Mellent, Normandy, France.377,709 [NEED TO DEFINE SENTENCE: Alt. Death]262 He died on 8 Dec 1069.377 He was also known as Beaumont. OCCU Count of Meulan ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 14 0;
HAWKINS.GED; www.teleport.com/ddonahue/donahue ;
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 140;
HAWKINS.GE D & gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001 say 1069;
www.teleport.com/ddonahue/do nahue says 1069;
Galeran III, of Mellant, Normandy - Royalty for Commoners, Ro derick W. Stuart,
p. 140; www.teleport.com/ddonahue/donahue says parents are R obert, Count of
Meulan and Alix de Vexin - NPH
DATE 22 JUN 2000 Parents: Cmte Robert ( Count Of Meulan) BEAUMONT and Adela DE VEXIN. Parents: Robert MEULAN and Alix De VEXIN. Parents: .
Spouse: Oda DE CONTEVILLE. Count Of Meulan Waleran DE MEULAN and Oda DE CONTEVILLE were married about 1017 in Of Ponteaudemer, Normandy, France.377 Children were: Countess Of Meulent Adeline DE MEULAN, Hugh BEAUMONT, Marie DE MEULAN.
Spouse: Alis. Children were: Waleran DE MEULAN, Waleran De MEULAN, Fulk DE MEULAN, Fulk De MEULAN.
Marie DE MEULAN7,117,838 was born about 1005 in Meulan, France. Parents: Count Of Meulan Waleran DE MEULAN and Oda DE CONTEVILLE.
Marie De MEULAN7,102 was born in 1008 in Seine-Maritime, France.
Spouse: Hue TALLEBOT. Hue TALLEBOT and Marie De MEULAN were married in . Children were: Jeanne De TALLEBOT.
The Society for Medieval Genealogy also does not list a Marie as a daughter of Galeran de Meulan:
However, on that same page, there is a highly suspicious entry that shows an 8th born Marie de Meulan marrying a Hue Talbot, Baron de Cleuville, Sire de Hotot-sur-Meretc.:
8 MARIE de Meulan . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m HUE Talbot Baron de Cleuville Sire de Hotot-sur-Meretc.
The generation in which this Marie and Hue are placed lived around 1220, not 1000.
Marie de Meulan's Timeline
Yvelines, Ile-de-France, France
Badleslane, Bedfordshire, England
Cleuville, Seine Maritime, Haute Normandy, France
Talboth, Normandy, France
January 26, 1079