Susan Newell

• My gt grandfather Joseph Winters was born may 1856 at Langford,
  

Bedfordshire

How do you know this is your ggfr? It is not an uncommon name,

• Worked in Cambridgeshire as ag lab before coming to NZ in 1875
• Died in NZ 1935 - death certificate and marriage certificate give dob as
  

Ware, Hertfordshire

Not sure why Ware given as birthplace

possibly he worked as an unmarried man in Ware, and had spoken about the place to his family. Comes his death, it was not possible to ask him, but someone said - oh, remember he was always going on about Ware - that must be where he was born. But, on the other hand, see below.

• Mothers name is listed as Newell on certificate
  
• The name Joseph Winters is listed as father on marriage certificate
  

A Joseph Winters and a Susan Newell appear on 1871 census at Wareside in

Herts - Railway Hotel

Trouble is Joseph is 44 - probably Josephs father?

It sounds as if we are talking about two generations

1. Joseph who married Susan Newell

2. Joseph, their son (or at least, Susan's son and Joseph's stepson, who (maybe) later took his name.

If Susan had an illegitimate son named Joseph Newell in 1856 at Ware, then bingo, you have him. In which case, his mother was a Newell, and only the name of the father is in doubt - check local Petty session to see if there is a maintenance case. Does Joseph here state he wasborn in Langford? If so, this sounds likely, and look in that area for a maintenance case, but presumably she soon moved to Ware.

Susan Newell is listed as wife on 1871 census

is she listed as Susan Winters or Susan Newell?

- Joseph is listed as son in
law

Head in census is David Newell is Susan his wife or Josephs?

ah, with you. If the set up is

David Newell head....

Susan Newell, wife

Joseph Winters, son in law aged 14 b Langford

then the child was born as Winters *(? illegitimately, ?of a short lived marriage.)

Susan then married Mr Newell, but the boy retained his own surname, because he was already known by it before Susan married David The Joseph Winters aged 44 MAY be Susan's brother.

Susan is still at Wareside in 1881 census but not 1891

Eve McLaughlin

She did not list father on birth certificate of Joseph Winters. Hello, Hugh, Sorry for a few days delay - I'm just starting tor recover from a bad dose of the flu! I found the following entries which may be of use to you: Elizabeth and James NEWEL(L) Blunham 1763 removed to Cardington William NEWEL(L) Pavenham 1720 miscellaneous John, Eleanor, Mary, Sarah, William, Samuel and Charles WINTER(S) Eaton Socon 1830 removed from Foulmire, CAM William WINTER(S) Arlesey 1817 removed to Ickleford HRT Kind regards, Geoff Dwelling: Private House Census Place: Luton, Bedford, England Source: FHL Film 1341394 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1651 Folio 21 Page 36 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Rachel BROWN U 57 F Luton, Bedford, England Rel: Head Occ: Land House Dividends & C Ann BROWN U 54 F Luton, Bedford, England Rel: Sister Occ: Land House Dividends & C Selina SERLOCK U 55 F Bramley, Surrey, England Rel: Companion Occ: Companion Dom Susan WINTERS U 40 F Histon, Cambridge, England Rel: Servant Occ: Cook Martha WINTERS U 35 F Histon, Cambridge, England Rel: Servant Occ: Housemaid I know why you thought of Dunton - found a Susan WINTERS there in the 1851 Census Index I reckon ..... but did you have a look at the family? Anyway the upshot is that Susan's maiden name was WINTERS, not NEWELL that might have been Joseph's father's name; I know not for there I found his baptism record in the PRs at Entry Number 567 on July 27th 1856; it says: Joseph, Mother Susan WINTERS of Millow No father's name given and Millow is a hamlet within the Parish of Dunton. Susan was at Millow in the 1851 Census with her father Samuel and siblings Samuel, Thomas, Betsey and George. I looked at every instance of both NEWELL and WINTERS in the County of Bedfordshire and there were no other Susan's of either name.