Vally Petrea Holm Andersen (Pedersdatter) - not a discussion but notes Ved registrering eller notarialtransaksjon er det ingen garanti eller godkjenning av innholdet i et dokument.

Started by Phillip Andrew Clausen-Tufi on Thursday, January 20, 2022
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1/20/2022 at 6:51 AM

Patronymer (og noen ganger matronymer) i stedet for etternavn var vanlig i Norge inntil arvelige etternavn ble obligatoriske i 1923.

Vally Petrea, born in 1911, would most likely have Pedersdatter as her birth name; Peder Olai Johannessen and Andersen from her marriage.

Sometimes this period in Norwegian history is referred to as the GREAT NAME FREEZE 23.
It is not a coincidence that 23 is also Old Testament Psalm 23 He Restores My Soul or 23andMe.

The document presented is dated 1931. The church correctly entered Vally Petrea's newly classified maiden name as Johannessen. Any use of "datter" should be connected to her birth father's first name.

Maiden names and birth names are usually the same in English, but maiden and birth names can be different when researching documents before 1923 in non-English languages.

When historical records are translated or processed by a notary agent, Ved registrering eller notarialtransaksjon er det ingen garanti eller godkjenning av innholdet i et dokument. Only the one who desires the information must know if a patronymic or a hereditary name was recorded. There is a male and female version of the hereditary name in some languages. Siblings' last names from the same parents could have different last names.

A person in the 1800s can be listed by multiple farm names, and all of these can be recorded in the same church book on different occasions for the municipality where he lived.

For example, a church book might show that when Bertrand Johannesen became engaged, he used his father's farm Sverdrup*, where he was born. At his wedding, three weeks later, he has used a different farm name because he had, during those three weeks, obtained a job as a farm laborer at Holm** and had moved to Holm a few kilometers from the farm Sverdrup where he had been born.

Three months after the wedding, his child was baptized at the church near grandpa Andersen. On that date, he was using the third name from Grandpa Ander Andersen because when he got married, he was given a cottage next to grandpa, and he honored the Andersen name, which became the hereditary name.

Thus, we can conclude that farm names were not used as surnames but rather as an address: "There goes Bertrand Sverdrup Holm Andersen."
Translated: There goes Bertrand Andersen, the son of Johannes, who came from Sverdrup and lives up the hill at the Holm farm.

It appears Johannessen is consistent with the rest of her siblings and makes for a neat English version of records.

*Sverdrup is Danish for grassland, and drup is old Norse for hamlet/village, or I prefer Sverdr up husmannsplass = English for Swords ready Homestead or The House of Drawn Swords.

**Holm, Holmbo or Holmbaugh literally means the Tall Man who tilled the land. A farmer, or a locational name meaning the 'dweller near the brook.' Local surnames, derived from a place-name where the man held land or from the place from which he had come, or where he actually lived.

Holmbo - Coat of Arms - From an age when there were no numbered houses, an address was a descriptive phrase that made use of a convenient landmark. At that time, coats of arms came into being for the practical reason that men went into battle heavily armed and were difficult to recognize. It became the custom for them to adorn their helmets with distinctive crests and paint their shields with animals and the like. Coats of arms accompanied the development of surnames, becoming hereditary in the same way.

Inderst = inland / inside
Ungkar = bachelor
Pike - girl or bachelorette
Kone - wife
Husmann - husband

Private User
1/20/2022 at 9:52 AM

Never use 1923 as a rule for fabricating a -datter name. Only sources for that counts.

I have church records even before 1800 showing women with their fathers or husbands name, which was not a farm name, and as early as Norwegian census 1865 there are nearly 100.000 women with their fathers or husbands name.

1/20/2022 at 9:48 PM

Never use 1923 as a rule to make a -daughter name. Only sources for it count.
Never use 1923 as a rule for fabrication.

Hi cousin Bjørn - Yes, thank you. I noticed that native English speakers in the United States without foreign language experience are not aware of the patronymic system used by many countries. Native English ​​tend to believe that any name with a different spelling cannot be related. Worse are those who learn "datter" is for all Nordic women, and "sen" is for men.

The message I posted was aimed at those who approach genealogical taxonomy as a consistently ancient method of hierarchical name classification. My comment was rudimentary and outdated for the experienced researchers. Nevertheless, I hoped to help individual speakers explain names and culture more flexibly. Everything we record should include people, families, communities, representations, data, and most importantly, the big picture. Family surname taxonomy demonstrates how genealogy is related to many other existing disciplines in history, language, mass psychology, and human behavior.

That's wrong, but as you said, let's not "fabricate" inaccurate and partial information or just enter the names of the family trees. We must all make an effort to examine a family member before adding or changing information because copying, pasting, merging can duplicate errors exponentially.

The introductory English-speaking genealogist does not know Old Norse, Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Baltic, Icelandic, Greenlandic or Dutch customs. Nevertheless, they have enough computer knowledge and basic family knowledge to create genealogical inconsistencies, tangled knots, false documents, mergers, and generational discrepancies. Fortunately, many Nordic relatives are family veterans and are multilingual. We depend on relatives like you to help and welcome the newest members.

Bjørn P. Brox is your fourth cousin's partner's third cousin when it's removed.

Philip Tufi
→ Grace Marie Tufi
your mother → Emil Andrew Clausen
her father → Karen Marie Clausen
his mother → Johannes Mathisen
her father → Elen Mathisdatter
his sister → Karoline Olsdatter Thomassen
her daughter → Eliva Mathilde Edvardsen
her daughter → Steinar Edvardsen
her son → Kristin Edvardsen
his daughter → Øystein Gjerde
her partner → <private> Gjerde (Johansen)
his mother → Hagbart Edvin Brox
her foster father → Mette Jensine Brox
his mother → Rasmus Johan Brox
her father → Hans Hagerup Brox
his brother → Rudolf Johan Brox
his son → Trygve Andreas Brox
his son → Bjørn P. Brox

Private User
1/21/2022 at 10:22 AM

About sources: There are primary sources for Vally Petrea before she married, and it is not Pedersdatter.

Private User
1/21/2022 at 3:30 PM

Phillip Andrew Clausen-Tufi - It was more a hint that there is no sources naming Vally Petrea as Pedersdatter. Among the coast, cities and especially in northern part of Norway, where she is from, they stopped very early using -datter patronyms, - in my experience around 1860.

I took the freedom to add sources and update the profile, and there is also no sources neither for Holm as part of her name. Follow the sources....

I recommend that you remove the "smart" matches to MyHeritage profiles, - they are definitely not smart since they are not sources.

Private User
1/21/2022 at 3:34 PM

The Pedersen name in the census 1920 can be taken with a grain of salt,

1/22/2022 at 2:05 AM

) Thank you ---- yes, exactly my point is that you know details about behaviors and traditions that we could never find in digital copies of things. YES, and the smart matches have become an editing project to separate the cheese from the omelette and mix the scrambled eggs into yolk and egg whites.

I also try to anticipate that some agencies like US immigration that enter immigration information will seem neat and tidy. They were in a crowded, chaotic ship environment, and somehow the scripture looks as if they were sitting and writing everything down in one setting. Those who collect the data are likely to collect the data during the immigration process and then spend another day filling out the paperwork from the first copy. Maybe they use notes to keep the general ledger clean and consistent. Other workers may transcribe the notes to the documents and print them by hand from a copy of other people's records, may end up being guessed by the registrar. Where the names are unknown to the officer, girls are incorrectly listed as men, alphabets may vary, letters may be incorrectly copied. That record is then published 100 years later digitally and used by our other genealogists as documented registration certificates.

how is this translation?

) Takk ---- ja, akkurat poenget mitt er at du vet detaljer om atferd og tradisjoner som vi aldri kunne finne i digitale kopier av ting. JA, og de smarte fyrstikkene har blitt et redigeringsprosjekt for å skille osten fra omeletten og blande eggerøra til eggeplomme og eggehviter.

Jeg prøver også å forutse at noen byråer som amerikansk immigrasjon som legger inn immigrasjonsinformasjon vil virke ryddige og ryddige. De var i et overfylt, kaotisk skipsmiljø, og på en eller annen måte ser skriften ut som om de satt og skrev ned alt i én setting. De som samler inn dataene vil sannsynligvis samle inn dataene under immigrasjonsprosessen og deretter bruke enda en dag på å fylle ut papirene fra den første kopien. Kanskje de bruker notater for å holde hovedboken ren og konsekvent. Andre arbeidere kan transkribere notatene til dokumentene og skrive dem ut for hånd fra en kopi av andres registre, kan ende opp med å bli gjettet av registraren. Der navnene er ukjente for offiseren, er jenter feil oppført som menn, alfabeter kan variere, bokstaver kan være feil kopiert. Den posten blir så publisert 100 år senere digitalt og brukt av våre andre slektsforskere som dokumenterte registreringsbevis.

1/22/2022 at 2:11 AM

matches - har du fyrstikker til sigaretten min - fyrstikker tenn en fyrstikk og kopier ordrett
matches - ordrett not fire stick...lol

1/22/2022 at 2:17 AM

ord for ord

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