Is Francois Savoie really the son of Tomaso?

Although royal marriages were an exception...most marriages of the time were conducted twice...once; locally-privately, the other larger and public, and could be years apart...especially in times of war. People tend to forget that Thomas was a beggar 'prince' living off the generosity of the French crown at a time when he was also a mercenary for Spain and other branches of the family were siding with the Hapsburg's and even the Welf's, and the English crown. In a way...Francis would have been at war with his father...and bravo for it. Thomas was a loser, a monster, and the son of a monster that ordered the massacre of women, children, and old people for a bread riot. I'd just as soon not be related to such royal trash. A family that only managed two king-ships, and lost both within no time at all through their greed and incompetence. The proof this family is related to Charlemagne is about the same as Francis's relation to Thomas...less really. I'll take my descent from Charlemagne from my descent from Rolf the Ganger, an apparently loved ruler (except for that beheading two hundred Christians thing when he went mad for a day), so I really don't care about that one way or another...but what I hate is when a family with a mostly made up history of its own starts trashing a deathbed confession without proof. Descendants of Francis need prove NOTHING, the Savoys of Europe only need provide DNA (OFFER THE ONES IN JAIL TIME OFF FOR IT) to prove it wrong. I do not believe for a second that a dyeing Catholic would lie...as far as I (and you should insist on the same) am concerned the ball is in the monster family's court.

I am researching my family tree. I do believe from my relatives that there was some indian blood but it may be a sense of humor thing I am trying to fiqure out my great grandfathers journals (in French) Emile Le blanc.
and Elizabeth Roy/Roi The bloodline was from the Roy side of the family. Gabrial Chaisson married Marie Savoie. If I am able to translate the journals I will post them here.

Amerindian bloodlines are hard to prove via DNA because it is usually the g-g-g-g-g-grandmother who was Native American...which would involve finding a woman who can trace her mDNA back through generations of name changes. Otherwise it would take a complete mapping of someones nearly complete DNA which would cost thousands. so saying that Savoy DNA should have some Micmac in it (back 300+ years) would be very hard to prove, but also, nearly impossible really to disprove either.

Hello, If I might be permitted to join in this discussion..I have de Savoye ancestry from Ath in Belgium..Savoye was the way the name Savoie was spelled in Flanders..Anyway, Jacques de Savoie Comte de Romont et Vaud, lived in Ath, (he was the son of Louis de Savoie & Anne de Lusignan) at the same time as my earliest recorded de Savoye ancestor..He was married with a daughter, but there is no record of another child..However he died when the child (my ancestor) was very young..The (my) Savoye family continued to live in Ath, & were successful merchants .I find it very odd, that a family, bearing the same name as the Count, who lived in the same town, would have no connection..I proposed this to the Managers on Geni, & for a while that connection was there..And containing, as has been mentioned here, all that important/interesting ancestry..However there were naysayers, & now that connection to the Comte de Romont has been removed, & the last ancestor Michiel de Savoye's profile locked...I would love to try the DNA route, but unfortunately, my direct ancestral line ended, & disappeared .Last de Savoye (on that line) was female living in Ghent. .There are however de Savoyes I have discovered living in Belgium, who seem convinced they are connected to the Royal House of Savoy...If there is any chance of getting Savoie DNA tested on one of the known royal lines, I could get them to join in too..In fact does anyone know if there is a Savoie/Savoye DNA Project already...I can read from your discussions how keen you are to find that connection..I feel it too!.

Danielle le Marais...i suppose this touches on the indian bloodlines mentioned before as well. the starkweather side of my family had been tempted to dismiss that ann woodburry phillip was the daughter of metacomit (king phillip). i have always found the 'old mother roberts starkweather' story more unlikely although there was never any doubt it was true.finally someone with direct mother to mother to mother mtdna back to ann tested and came out a4a1...total amerindian, the arguments against ann being the daughter of the guy that started king phillips war was that 'no one in new england at that time would ever marry an indian' well, so much for that. there have been several savoy's that have landed in jail in italy and spain, i do not see how getting their dna would be a problem, and there seem to be many surviving male lines back to francis, so it should be 'doable' for the acadia line. do not be discouraged, i absolutely never thought the starkweathers could ever prove ann.

No one can agree on where he was born...but everyone is so sure when he was born. That is of course impossible considering no one seems to have any proof that he was born at all except that he existed. Some record of Francis must exist somewhere, if not, than why not? Certainly the Bourbons were capable of erasing people (the man in the iron mask). I think we are probably looking at the wrong birth date, and considering that many people (even royals) went by a dit name or their middle names at the time...we may not even have the real first name right. The 'evidence' is that he probably is the son of the asshat Tomaso as weak as that evidence (hearsay, but via death bed statement) my be. There is nothing that actually disproves anything. I would not say he definitely is descended from that evil family, but I certainly have nothing to prove he is not.

I have so much to comment here, but to give you an idea of my discoveries, look at my profile picture. That's me, and Marie de Bourbon. I also have pictures of my mother and Maria Teresa, a cousin of the Savoys , still working out the exact relation but they are identical. We are direct descendants of François Savoie landed in port royal. I can't figure out how to share pictures in these threads yet. But i have more to come! What do you think? Is there still anyone out there looking into this?! I might be talking to myself by now anyways! Lol

I want to see your pictures, Chantal, you are not talking to yourself!

And here's MY crazy theory, to throw some fuel on the fire:

Chief Membertou (my 10th G-grandfather, if Catherine Lejeune is his granddaughter), could he have had Viking blood? The Vikings visited North America centuries before Columbus, and where did they go? Nova Scotia! Why was he SO tall, taller than all the other Mi'kmaq men, and why did he have bushy facial hair, when Natives have Asian-type scant facial hair?

Amerindian men DID have the ability to grow facial hair, and many tribes along the North Pacific coast did. Many Iroquois and Cherokee elders, after about the time of the Civil War, grew beards, the traditional process of plucking it out no longer held cultural meaning, and shaving remains a pain. My grand father's grand father was Tonawanda Seneca, and he had a beard. It is possible but not likely the Vikings interbred with north eastern tribes, there was virtually no interbreeding between the Greenland Vikings and the Aleut/Eskimo peoples there, even after many generations of proximity, the Vikings thought they were 'ugly,' and called them Skræling. The Iroquois (including the Cherokee and Huron Federation tribes) have a high incidence of mt-DNA haplogroup 'X.' Though it probably entered into the bloodlines via the Bearing Straight migration, it is the same haplogroup as is found in South Western Europe, and the Middle East. So The Iroquois, Micmac, Chippewa, and some Dakota are in fact somewhat genetically different from most other Amerindians. As far as the Acadian men marrying Amerindian women, OF COURSE THEY DID. The French had no problem with that to begin with, and women were so scarce that the King later paid women to immigrate to Acadia and marry. They called them 'The Kings Daughters.'

I am also a descendant of François Savoie through my mother. My grandmother was a Savoie. Living in a small Acadian fishing village of Neguac, New Brunswick who boasts that they are the Capital of the Savoies. Please note the existence of two ancient rural farming hamlets northwest of the town of Loudun, department of Vienne: Grand Savoie and Petit Savoie situated on route D55 in France. They are situated between the communes(villages) of Berrie(population 257) to the north and Ternay(population 183) to the south. Loudun would be about 15-20 km away. Le Sieur Charles d'Aulnay family had land holdings not only in Aulnay, La Chaussée and Martaizé but in the Ternay and Berrie area also. All of these communities and hamlets form part of the Community of Communes of the Loudunais Country(Pays Loudunais). Please also note that prior to the French Revolution the Loudun Seneschalty was part of the Governate of Saumur which was party of the royal County of Anjou. In 1790, the French Revolution created the Departments and put Loudun in Vienne and part of Poitiers. There are still many Savoie's who reside there both in the hamlets, communes and town of Loudun.

I am also a descendant of François Savoie through Urbain LeBlanc. I've not yet read the entire comments thread, but going back as far as 2010, I see there has been considerable discussion about DNA tests as a way of proving/disproving the connection. I have done autosomal DNA tests on myself, my mother (who is a Lorette and descends from Urbain LeBlanc), my brother, and my daughter. The ethnicity report for every one of us shows Italian / Iberian / Western Europe, and this is very consistent for 5 different reports. This obviously implies that many hundreds to thousands of years ago we descend from populations most likely in France, Switzerland, Spain, Italy (possibly Portugal). Keeping in mind these are estimates, my question is how many other François Savoie descendants are seeing similar ethnicity reports? I understand this doesn't prove anything, but I do find it interesting that we all share Spanish & Italian heritage, whereas our family tree would suggest Northern France and Switzerland (Chiasson on my paternal side).

Are there many other descendants with Italian heritage?

My dad (on average) with the various companies shows 26-38% Iberian on his results along with a small % (5% or so) of Italy/Greece

Autosomal DNA is most likely totally worthless going back to 1621. Every individual gets their own unique recombination of their parents Autosomal genetic code, we are different from our siblings, sometimes by a lot. Simple ethnicity remains something of a guessing game...in fact just your eye color is set by more than one set of genes. My great grandfather was Tonawanda Seneca, but it doesn't show in my Autosomal DNA (although the Iroquois had some unusual DNA, at least the mtDNA). What is needed is a direct paternal descendant, the son of a son of a son etc., in an unbroken line going back to Francis, and then to compare that Y-DNA to the branches of the family remaining in Europe. Y-DNA rarely mutates, it remains essentially the same for tens of thousands of years, and almost exactly the same over generations. So Y-DNA CAN be used to establish relationship. There are enough of this family who have been in jail (remember that Thomaso's father is the one that ordered the massacre of Piedmont where they fired canons at starving peasants...not the most honorable of people), and Thomaso was something of a leech on the French court, a traitor against his own family, and not much of a general. So, they may have been momentarily 'royal,' but our branch were also real asshats.

Someone should set up a Savoie YDNA project, so that males with this surname can test their YDNA, & see if there are matches.

I'm Kirby Pécot. My 3rd grandfather was Francois Pécot he married Rosalie Prejean exile from Acadie.
Rosalie's great grandfather was Francois (de Savoy) Savoie son of Thomas Francois Savoy, 1st Prince of Carignan Savoy.
Francois Savoie was born in 1621. Thomas Francois Savoy married Marie de Bourbon in 1626 and fathered 7 children with her. If Francois is the son of Thomas, it would be logical Francois was illegitimate.
When Thomas of royal blood married in the royal Bourbon family, it's logical Francois may not be welcomed by his father's new family. He may have decided to seek his fortune in Acadie.
Now this is curious, Francois Pécot was born in France, his wife Rosalie was part of a very French family.
My mother was born in France and my grandparents had French heritage.
My ethnicity by DNA analysis, is 23% Great Britain, 21% Italy/Greece, 20% Ireland, 16% West Europe, 11% Spain, 5% Scandinavia, 3% East Europe. East Europe is considered France.
Thomas Savoy was French, Spanish and Italian. I was surprised to learn I had more Italian heritage than French.
Thomas of royal blood is the descendant of Catherine de Medici of the de Medici Italian family.
By the way, no Native American.

Just to add a little more 'fun' to this. There is now a theory that Francis might have been the son of Thomaso and Katheryn of Hapsburg, perhaps a recognized illegitimate child herself (both Austrian Emperors and at the time Kings of Spain were Hapsburg), either by a previous marriage which was annulled, or simply illegitimate (morals at the time made our current 'libertine' ones seem tame by comparison). Both would count as illegitimate at the time, thus Frances's death bed confession.

Has there been any further light shed on this topic? I am a descendant of francois savoie

There are still male, ydna carriers of the savoy/savoie surname living in loisiana, and the then the same for the living desendants of the italian/french royal savoy/savoie lines. They were exiled when italy dissolved the monarchy, hiwever it is possible to test the ydna of both male lines...

I can trace one of my ggggg..... grandparents to Francois Savoie and Catherine Lejeune via my grandfather's mother's Savoie line (Moise Savoie & Madeleine Leblanc).
Had a DNA test done that does show 5 % Iberian U6a but no Amerindian though it seems that Catherine's sister "Edmee" is often referred to as "Savage" hinting at an Amerindian ancestry. I read somewhere that there was a lost Portuguese colony back in the day so was wondering if maybe this colony was taken in and adopted by the natives.
I have also seen online that Chief Henry Membertou was believed to be part Basque or Portuguese. If this is the case is it not possible that U6a would also be found among the natives DNA.

nobody is shure that he is , but I am shure who francois is , he is my ancester , I am from the line of his 3rd child , if I'm not mistaken ...Germain Savoie ..explained in Fidele Thériault's book about the savoie genealogy in acadie

My father's name is Thomas Savoie born 1928 died 2009 , father Michel Savoie born 1904 died 1988, his father Thomas , his father Olivier and so on right up tp Germain Savoie son of Germain Savoie 3rd child of Francois Savoie ...Fidele Thériaults book from 1988 explaines it all .....I have read a lot of comments about being a direct line , but these people all have a different names than Savoie ....I am a truly direct descendant of this man ....somewhere in the book there is a Jean - Magloire and a Jean Savoie one of the 3 sons of Germain , the founder of Neguac New brunswick Canada where the family came during the 1755 to 1763 colonial war Déportation des Acadiens et Acadiennes ...yes I am french first language

All who are descendants of francois and his son germain, please inbox me @ daniclick91@gmail.com. i am related twice over from my mother's, father's line. The same person is an ancestor of my granfather on both his father and mothers side. I would like to point out that as a descendant of francois, with no further proof except what was given on his deathbed, i ran my raw dna in gedmatch .com. when i did this, i matched multiple genetic markers of tomasso's earlier ancestors, so with that and the fact that no matches through my fathers dna to that family, I am concluding that there is some legitimacy to francois's claim. Especially since i have a haplogroup match to the royal houses of france and italy, adding to that, there is also the fact that every royal house of italy, france, spain, portugal, england, ireland, and scotland, were all relatedto the savoy/savoy line. That and the intermarriages of relatives.....

We need to straighten out one misinformation. Pierre Lejeune that married the Mi'k mac women was born about 1628. According to Bras D'or First Nations records, this Pierre was the brother of Catherine Lejeune and Edmee Lejeune and not the girls father.

It is not known who Catherine, Edmee and Pierre's parents were. All we know for sure is that their father was a Lejeune from France b. about 1595 and that their mother's Halogroup was U6a which puts their mother's maternal ancestry at best from the Iberlan Peninsula or France. Their mother may have had a Amerindian Father but she was obviously not a full blooded native in loo of the fact that her maternal line has haplogroup U6a.

to Neil, Johnston Rouse II : you mentioned a direct paternal descendant , unbroken line going back to Francois Savoie, Y -DNA rarely mutates, and to Danielle le Marais , I am a direct descendant of this man ....the son of a son of a son right up to Francois , there is a book by Fidele Thériault proving it

James savoie. Can you have your ydna to francois, there is a ydna site in italy fir the savoy/savoie family. You may be able to get a comparison done

to daniel Click : How do you get all of tis done and the connection to to ydna site in Italy ?

So the savoie/savoy surname has a site for members who carry that surname. More specifically the direct male line from italy that is exiled. They have geneology links, but it has been years since i tried to do this. I hit a dead end as i am the great grandson of the savoie line and do not carry the ydna for that surname. You do. Its a matter of checking your ydna against that of the living male line through italian geneological databases. The thing is, the savoy line intermarried so often with all of europe, that the ydna of that line is aldo the matching dna of the french royals due to intermingling of family. The only way to definitively tie francois is to match his and your ydna, with that of the existing descendants from italy

The easiest way is through your raw dna data. That data uploaded into gedmatch eill link you to international family. Thats how i was able to find matching snmp strands to the medici line in my dna. I unfortunately as i said do not carry the male, unmutated, savoy ydna. Just autosomal hits gor all of the royal haplogroups

My brothers are direct line paternal descendants. How can they be tested?

evelyne-they would take a y-dna test...preferably one that maps 100 or more markers. y-dna doesn't change much over long periods of time (sometimes tens of thousands of years). we will likely never know who his mother really was. we would need y-dna from the direct european line to compare it with. depending on the level of testing...this would be definitive proof.