Frosti king of Finland - one or more?

Started by Harald Alvestrand on Wednesday, May 5, 2010

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5/5/2010 at 9:50 PM

The "Skjalf Frostadotter" profile has been linked to Frosti Karasson, king of Finland, roughly attributed to around year 250.

This profile is approximately 420.

Given that we're in completely legendary space here - should we make sure the Geni tree has two Frostis, or should we allow the theory that they're one and the same to be the one represented?

Frosti (Ynglingesoga), king in Finland is one Frosti profile.
Frosti / Jøkull Karasson, king in Kvenland is another.

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:12 AM

well they did live longer back then ^U^...actually it looks like 2 different people got mixed together ( maybe in legend or maybe just on geni .... which i dont know)

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:48 AM

they have different parents
so probably n o t the same

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:56 AM

When reading this Wikipedia article I come to the conclution there is only 1 Frosti;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornj%C3%B3t

It is however a bit confusing - see the chapter about "More traditions about persons named Frosti and Logi".
Quote;
"In the Ynglinga saga the names Logi and Frosti are otherwise connected when it relates that King Agni of Sweden in a raid on Finland killed Frosti, the leader of the Finns who opposed him and captured Skjálf, Frosti's daughter, and her brother Logi. (But the verse of the Ynglingtal quoted here as confirmation says only that Skjálf is Logi's kin.) "

The word "kin" is here meant as a descendant of someone, several generations later. This must be so also, since the "1st Frosti" is from around year 250 and Skjálf from appr. year 428.

The Family Tree at the bottom of the page show the relationships easily understandable.

According to this article Skjálf is the "wife of" Agne, the son of Dag the Wise and should probably be connected to the tree in that way only.

What do you think - does this make sence?

Private User
5/6/2010 at 4:05 AM

lol...no...ok if you read it slow enough ( about 5 times)
yes it does make sense...so that is the way i would present it. ^U^

Private User
5/6/2010 at 5:28 AM

Well, when I read my own I'm post a bit later then I'm getting even more confused.

It actually says that Skjalf was a kin of Logi, not of Frosti...but looking at the family
tree, she is connected to Frosti - but it doesn't say how. She was born 218 years
later than he was. Very confusing.
More about her here; (and what a story!); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne

After reading this story I tend to think there are 2 different Frostis after all.
Still not 100% sure though.

5/6/2010 at 6:56 AM

Let's try to disentangle them, then. I'll try to make everyone who's listed as father of Skjalg be one Frosti, and everyone who's listed as son of Kari as another Frosti; if anyone's both, I'm likely to do random violence to their connections.

Will try to keep notes in both profiles.

Private User
5/6/2010 at 7:09 AM

lol...or we could just kill them all off...oh wait their already dead. better go with your idea for now Harald. anyway i think its a good one. ( but remember i am no expert) but it does look like they got confused.
@(Kåre Tofte ) nice link ^U^

5/6/2010 at 2:08 PM

BTW, the year-of-birth in these lines seem to be pure guesswork, done independently by multiple people for different lines. I haven't found any documentation of the guesswork (who did it, and according to what guidelines). So treat the years with quite a bit of skepticism!

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:15 PM

maybe you should contact the managers!

5/6/2010 at 2:19 PM

All 50 of them?

This line is the result of a roughly 50-way merge....

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:33 PM

the 2 of them

Private User
5/6/2010 at 2:35 PM

the main managers of the two different (or maybe different) profiles this discussion thread is all about

5/6/2010 at 11:58 PM

I checked - king Frosti Karasson (the probably-older one) has 65 managers, with 10 merges left uncompleted. Frosti king in Finland (the probably-younger) is a 22-way merge. Skjalf Frostadotter has 43.

Geni's decision to assign a "main manager" is 100% arbitrary for this kind of merger, afaik. I don't see a mechanism to send a message to *all* of the managers of the profile.

That's why I picked the route of starting a public discussion linked to Skjalf's profile - in the hope that Geni would list this as a public discussion for the managers of that profile. It may not have worked.

The one I really want to ask is the one that merged the two Frostis together - but that information is nowhere recorded in Geni.

Private User
5/7/2010 at 12:10 AM

i thought that it would be easier for you to ask two managers instead of all as
the main managers have usually taken care of the profile for quite a long time and perhaps have som knowledge and experience of the profile

(idoesn't it look like a bad merge where Skjalf got to be the daughter of both Frostis?)

Susanna

5/7/2010 at 2:22 AM

Status: The disentanglement is now awaiting a bug response from Geni - I can't get the wrong relationship (the one to King Frosti) listed in Skadi's relationships (there are only 4 relationships to Frosti King listed), and therefore I can't delete it. That's irritating.

Awaiting Geni's response.

Private User
5/7/2010 at 5:46 AM

Harald, - without even looking on the profile I can probably tell you that is not a bug, but a feature to ensure that connections that is brought in to a pending merge is preserved if you choose to Undo the pending merge.

To say it in a simple way: You can usually only cut connections that is merged into the main profile, at least when it comes to parent connections.

Locate the pending profile with this connection, merge it or undo that merge, cut the connection on it and re-merge it.

5/7/2010 at 7:06 AM

My two cents, if we are talking about two commonly (but erroneously) merged profiles is, in addition to providing details in the "About me" field, to also add a short note in the Maiden name field with text similar to: "NOT <commonly mis-merged name>, DO NOT MERGE"

- you will have to change the gender of the profile in this case, don't forget to change it back when you are done:)

This note will show clearly in a merging situation and has proven quite successful in stopping future "helpers" from tangling things back up again in the future (there is no guarantee of course).

5/7/2010 at 7:33 AM

Brox - please look at the profile.

I unmerged the wrong father, the wrong mother and Skjalf herself (a total of approximately 30 unmerges), and STILL I cannot unlink her.

http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000001712651050#600000000...

Torbjørn, good idea. I had also thought of naming them (Orkneysaga) and (Ynglingesaga) as middle names, to see if that helps, but perhaps more people see the "maiden" name (which is fairly useless in Viking profiles anyway)?

Private User
5/7/2010 at 10:00 AM

I think you should sort out the 22 pending merge in this profile first: http://www.geni.com/profile/compare/6000000000196428019

Undo and group together those who is listed as Skjalf's father.

5/7/2010 at 10:17 AM

Thanks - so a different relationship than the one I am trying to remove is still able to block removal? Sometimes I don't understand the logic of what Geni doesnt allow us to do.

I'm unbundling the other Frosti totally; the head-of-list here is someone (two someones) who doesn't respond at all.

Then there are 40 mergers to redo, all because Geni won't let me remove a link.... sigh.

Private User
5/7/2010 at 10:19 AM

Well, there is a secret trick: You can extract and merge a profile already placed in another stack using the compare/index/xxx?to=yyy option. This means that you don't have to undo a stack just because you want to sort out some profiles.

5/7/2010 at 10:59 AM

Sigh.. I think I've dissolved every single merger among her (now) 16 parents, and renamed a "main" profile of each Frosti so that I can tell the difference easily. But STILL the Frosti I want to remove does not show up in the relationship list. More tips?

5/7/2010 at 1:08 PM

Bjorn, I wish we had an "instruction video" showing how to perform these tasks with regard to merges. I have been taking it a step further. I have been copying others information and adding each profile. It is time consuming, but so is merging. I guess it's a preference thing. I think it would be cool to say find our individual genealogies back to profiles that are proven to have correct information and their branches accordingly. What would be even nicer to be able to have these profiles in each of our languages and to choose how the name comes up on our ends. I was told this would someday be possible. I think it's great we actually have this technology to learn these things. This fact alone makes us far richer than all the kings and queens of the world.
Keep up the good work!
Love to all, Desiree

9/10/2010 at 4:20 AM

Resurrecting this thread, since I'm undoing the merger again - I do NOT think that Frosti father of Skjalg should be linked to Frosti Karasson, father of Snær (Snow) the Old.

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