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Mareen Duvall, his wives, and his children need a massive clean-up

Started by Private User on Sunday, July 18, 2010

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Showing 1-30 of 77 posts
Private User
7/18/2010 at 1:09 PM

I have taken a large interest in profile of Mareen Duvall (The Immigrant). It is currently a huge mess, and I'd like to work with everyone who is also related to him.

If you cold respond to my merge requests, that would be great. If you don't want to be bothered, feel free to just set me as the manager of the relevant profiles around Mareen.

I have some solid info on the family, so I have a plan for how to reorganize. Any thoughts?

Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant"

7/18/2010 at 2:41 PM

I agree that it is a big mess. Somebody has even created this into a completely ludicrous royal line. I have tried over and over again to do what I can to remove the unproven, and likely incorrect, information with regard to his parentage. Every time I re-add his parents as "Unknown Father" and "Unknown Mother" somebody else merges them away. If you can straighten this out, more power to you, and you have my support.

Private User
7/18/2010 at 3:26 PM

I mean, it's kind of a pipe dream to have everything above Mareen fixed. It will take a very long time to fix any of that noise. What is driving me crazy is the inaccuracies in which wife gave birth to which child.

From the information I have:

Mary Duvall (Bouth/South) gave birth to John, Lewis, Eleanor, Mareen "The Elder," and Samuel (My path).

Susannah Duvall (Brashears) gave birth to Katherine, Elizabeth, Susannah, Mareen "The Younger," Mary, Johanna, and Benjamin.

Mary Duvall (Stanton) did not have any children with Mareen.

7/18/2010 at 3:39 PM

That's very close to the information I have. I'm descended from Susanna Duvall Tyler.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 6:20 AM

Hi Robert & Patrick...I see that you are both my 9th cousins, once removed.
I am though Mareen Duvall, the younger, though his son- Lewis Duvall, who marred Alice Brown, though their daughter Alice Duvall- Burton, who married Basil Burton.......
Due to getting the notice that you posted this discussion, I took a look at that part of my family tree. I had not looked at it for a few months as I have been working on my other lines. I was shocked to see the mess it is right now...a real big mess!
I see that their are 6 profiles for Elizabeth Jacob-Duvall alone! My tree looks like a spiders web....leading everywhere? And then there are all kinds of other problems.
My grandmother worked on her family blood line for over 50 years....working with other family members to document her family...including this line..up to Mareen DuVall "the Immigrant". I have worked on my line for over 40 years, starting as a teen helping my grandmother.
The Duvall line is well documented though the many families that have worked on this tree for many, many years. There are many books out there as well....and then there is the Duvall Society in Maryland that have worked on this family. Until others started to merge into my tree, my tree looked clean...now it is a big mess with more merges and miss information then I can work on. I think you need to work on the family profiles that are here in the USA..before working on the ones in the old country. That is do able.
Try contracting all of the profile managers...and get them to take a look at the mess we have right now. Many may be unaware of what a mess it has become. Also, the other problem I see is that many of the profiles are "locked" so you can't merge them or edit them. At this point I am ready to undo merges to everyone and disconnect the other trees as it is such a mess!
Also, many on here who have these trees..don't want to work with others...don't want to collaborate with anyone, don't want a public tree connected to the "big tree" that we are all part of...and want their trees and infomation on those trees left alone. I don't want to deal with that mess.
Post here, who you are in connection to these profiles so that those of us who are part of these lines can see that you are distant family members to us all...I find it helps when working on a family line to know more about the person/s who want to work on the line.

Let me know how you want to start on this mess. I don't have tons of time as I work and are working on my other family lines right now, but I will help where I can.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 12:35 PM

I need control over Mary Ridgely, Susannah Duvall, and Mary Duvall.

I am currently a manager on Mareen, which is helpful for cleaning up his specific profile, but I keep hitting walls due to lack of permissions with the surrounding profiles. I'm requesting collaboration with the managers currently.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 12:36 PM

The biggest offender of not responding to requests is Mark Rosenblum. He has control over a large portion of the profiles, and has not responded to any of my many requests.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 12:54 PM

Is there a way to disconnect all of his profiles for the rest of them if he will not help?

Private User
7/19/2010 at 12:58 PM

From my understanding, there is no way to do that yet. In the Geni forums, we have been promised "Merge Undo" by the the Geni staff.

I just started collaborating with Private User, and it has opened up a lot of doors in the Duvalls. I'm working my hardest to get all of this cleaned up. When I get to a point where I can no longer make any changes, I'll start petitioning the Geni staff for help.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:00 PM

Just saw this post. I set you for auto merge Robert. Maybe that will help speed things up.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:03 PM

Thanks, Steven. That'll help. :-)

By the way, thanks for your interest Terri. I really appreciate it.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:13 PM

Re: Susanna Brasseur..
Daughter Of Benjamin Brashear (Benois Brassier), Benois "Benjamin" Brashears / Brasseur, Robert South, Robert South, Benois Brasseur and 7 othersBenjamin Brashear (Benois Brassier), Benois "Benjamin" Brashears / Brasseur, Robert South, Robert South, Benois Brasseur, Benois Brasseur, Mary Brashear (Benois Brassier), Marie Richford, Mariran (Mary) South, Mary, Marie Brasseur and Mary Brasseur .

Where did Robert South come from? Had not seen that one before?
This is part of the problem here.
Have you asked for help by : Charles Leufroy Powell, Hayley James, Kevin ARMS, Julie Whitehead, Julie Duval, Tandace Burkhart, Shelley Chrystal Mactyre, Icn_collaborator_both_14 William LaBach, David McDougle, Icn_collaborator_both_14 Tammy Swingle (Tucker), Steven Patrick Frank, Icn_collaborator_both_14 Judith Anne Davis, Icn_collaborator_both_14 Serafina, Terri Rosenthal (Hampton), Patrick Hays and Corey Reece.

I see that Patrick is already working on this, and I have asked others today for help..All of these are managers on Duvall profiles.

Every time I look at these profiles a see more problems??
Good luck. : )

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:20 PM

Here is the problem, Terri. Mareen married two women named "Mary." One was named "Mary South" or "Mary Bouth." The other one was named "Mary Stanton."

Sloppy merges have ended up with the two Marys being confused in multiple places. I am working on a pedigree chart to showcase the family tree the way it should be.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:37 PM

Thank you..I have no idea how Robert South, became Susanna Brasseur's father? As you said...a big mess.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 1:55 PM

Robert it looks like you had a bunch of Mary South/Bouth profiles merged wtih Susanna. I unmerged them. Its possible we now have a few kids with the wrong mothers, but that is easier to sort out.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 2:06 PM

Oh, the kids of Mareen are a FUBAR. It will take a while to get every copy merged together, and sorted into the correct mother.

The important thing to remember is that Mary Stanton did not have children with Mareen.

"Mary Duvall (Bouth/South) gave birth to John, Lewis, Eleanor, Mareen "The Elder," and Samuel (My path).

Susannah Duvall (Brashears) gave birth to Katherine, Elizabeth, Susannah, Mareen "The Younger," Mary, Johanna, and Benjamin."

Private User
7/19/2010 at 2:17 PM

Sounds like thinks are moving forward! Thanks all. It is nice to get our family line fixed.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 2:26 PM

Okay I fixed the kids as best I could. Looks like they are all with the correct parents except Eleanor is still listed with Susannah due to a profile I can't edit.
Also there is an extra Mary Bouth/South listed as a wife of Mareen the Immigrant that I can't touch. I'm surprised there weren't more problems with Mareen the Elder and Mareen the Younger being mixed up.

Are Mareen's parents completely unknown? If so, add an explanation to the top of the about me section and we can start nuking those bad parent relationships.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 2:35 PM

There was a note in the about me note on Mareen The Immigrant about deleting parents. I removed it for this reason:

I don't think it is a great idea to go nuking things willy nilly. Let's see if we can come to a consensus on how to solve the problem.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:00 PM

Is any one a collaborator with Ric Eric Kuhlmey Dickinson.
Many of his profiles in this family line are LOCKED!!! I have tried to merge some of the profiles in my direct family line...Great------Grandparents, but as he has his locked, the site will not let me merge any of these extra profiles?
I have asked him to help..we well see if he gets back to any of us.

Robert, maybe you can ask Bjørn P. Brox if he can help with these..he has worked wonders on merge problems. I am off for the rest of the day...
And in the AM, I am back to work full time again.

later... : )

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:08 PM

Just open any managers profile and if he/she have collaborators you will find a section to the bottom right showing the first 12 with a link to show all. This is also the place where you manage your own collaboration list, like enabling auto-accept.

Ric Dickinson have 407 collaborators, including me, and I don't think there would be any problems being added as one, and he is online now...

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:08 PM

I am a collaborator with Ric Dickinson. He should respond.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:10 PM

I am now a collaborator with Ric Eric Kuhlmey Dickinson. Are his the profiles that can not be edited? Let me know and I will see what I can do. And I don't think anyone should touch the parents of Mareen the 1st..there are those on here that will flip out if you do!!! Can we deal with all of the family line in the states for now.

best to all.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:16 PM

Kevin ARMS is the one that has a private copy of Mary Bouth/South. I am a collaborator, and I hope he fixes the issue.

I requested the ability to view the profile. From there, I can try to get it merged.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:23 PM

Sound like a plan!

Private User
7/19/2010 at 3:57 PM

http://www.geni.com/documents/view/684471?doc_id=6000000009378104211

I created a document with the information I believe the tree should contain. Please feel free to correct any problems you find.

Please make sure to read the legend to understand what the symbols mean.

7/19/2010 at 7:59 PM

Private User I intentionally added the note about Mareen Duvalls parents being unknown a long time ago, because it was so messed up. His parents are unknown. What is on there for parents is just annoying noise, and because they can't be removed, that should be reflected on the profile. The problem with internet genealogy is that people take what they see as fact. When those "facts" are wrong, it needs to be clearly stated. I have every intention of replacing the statement about his parents on his profile. I just don't have time to do it right now, since I have to get out of bed in 5 hours.

7/19/2010 at 8:04 PM

@Robert Grant Brünner I'll take a look at what you have a bump it up against Newman's Descendants of Mareen Duvall of Middle Plantation... tomorrow. Since Newman actually used facts and transcripts of original data which I have been able to confirm with actual documents, I take it as a relatively accurate accounting of the family for several generations. I do not generally trust secondary sources, unless they can back up what they say, and Newman did very well.

Private User
7/19/2010 at 8:05 PM

Patrick Hays:

Is it 100% known that there is no info on his parents? There are two Duvall books (http://www.duvallsociety.org/merchandise.html). Does anyone have them?

7/20/2010 at 2:53 AM

@Robert Grant Brünner While it is difficult to prove with 100% that something did not exist it is not that difficult to shoot holes in something with no sourcing. I could do this myself, but, since my time is short, I will throw a reference to an older Rootsweb query and a little gift from Ancestry as a starting place: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2001-05/... and http://search.ancestry.com/browse/bookview.aspx?dbid=25957&iid=...
Of particular interest in this second link are pages 154 and 235. It is my belief that this unsourced book is the origin of the ancestry given today in Geni for Mareen Duvall. Notice that there are two versions of the line of Mareen Duvall given. Page 154 with parents Massiott DuVall and Margaret Orbin and 235 with Thomas DuVall and Nicola Stagard, hence one part of the problem on Geni, concerning which is his parent. Note that neither of these lists actual sources for the data. Unfortunately, to not list any sources was a common thing at one point, and people often take things like this as a true accounting.

The line on page 154 gives a place name for the father of Mareen Duvall as "The Province of St. Lawrence and the Fief of St. Aubin." Unfortunately, there is no Province of St. Lawrence in France. This is discussed further in the Rootsweb link that I used above. If the "source" does not even use accurate place names, how can it be trusted that the remaining information is accurate? Also in this line, even the narrative given does not make sense (taking out the non-existent place names for clarity): Mareen Duvall was the son of Massiott Duvall and Margaret Orbin. Massiott was the son fo William Du Vall who married Alexine Mamusin, daughter of Alex Mamusin, daughter of Lady Agnes de Marmien, who married Lawrence Du Vall, son of John Du Vall b. 1375, married ________, had son, Robert Du Vall, married Lady Jane Pritot, Robert was son of Hugh Du Vall who married Adelina ______. Now, after reading that... who begat who? Was Alex Mamusin the daughter of Lady Agnes de Marmien who married Lawrence Du Vall? If so, how did that happen? Was William Du Vall the "daughter" and they really meant son of Lady Agnes de Marmien who married Lawrence Du Vall? If so, how did that happen? If the latter is correct, that daughter was put in the place of son, that makes Mareen Duvalls male ancestry Mareen (who was generally accepted to have been born somewhere in the range of 1625), then Massiott, William, Lawrence then John who was born in 1375. They managed to cover 4 generations in 250 years??? If John was born in 1375 and was the father of Lawrence when he was 50 (1425), then Lawrence would have had to have been the father of William when he was 50 (1475), then he would have had to have been the father of William when he was 50 (1525), then he would have had to have been the father of Massiott when he was 50 (1575), then he would have had to have been the father of Mareen when he was 50 (1625). How many times would you have seen a line like that in the Middle Ages??? It's not realistic. Do you honestly expect me to believe this line is true??? There is far too much in there that is obviously untrue, and since there is no sourcing to even back it up, it is garbage and not worth the paper it was originally printed on.

The line on page 235 is slightly better, but still has problems. While it adds placenames, they similarly do not exist. It does add 1 generation, which solves part of the problem of not having enough generations from 1375 and 1625, but it is still expecting some longish lifetimes. And again it is not sourced.

Books like this can not be used in sourcing an accurate genealogy. They add an unacceptable degree of inaccuracy. However, over and over again, you can find unsourced information like this all over the internet. Somebody read this once upon a time, and because it was in print, accepted it as true. That can not be farther from the truth. One of my crusades, for years, has been to get stuff like this out of my lines. This is far from the only family this has happened to, and at least these are easily dismissed. There are/were some genealogy frauds who actually used sources, and documents, and occasionally created their own to fill a gap, to make genealogies (Gustave Anjou being one of the more famous of that ilk).

I have lived in Prince Georges County MD for about 9 years now, and have been taking that opportunity, when I have time to work on the families I have in this area, including Duvall. There is a LOT of history around here... if you look hard for it.

I HAVE to get ready for work.

Patrick

BTW: I have both of the books you mention. Both are well done, and seemingly accurate for the most part. The Doepkins book is truly fascinating. I highly recommend these to anybody doing serious research on these families.

Showing 1-30 of 77 posts

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