Leonard West - Broken Link

I have no real documentation to add, but definately see what Carol means that the about section dates don't match this John West. I believe my information came from the Tudorplace reference that Amgus refered to.

Info on "John West of Banbury" has to do with the real John West of Banbury, and I think has been duplicated on that profile. I was uncertain at the time whether to cut and merge, or just overhaul.

Now I'm leaning toward overhaul.

What appears to have happened is that Collins got John West son of Leonard mixed up with John West son of Edwarde and possibly with some other John West as well (and/or did some Wild Mass Guessing).

So far what I've been able to find regarding the Leonard West line is a bit of mention about son William making presentations to the local (to Burghwallis) church in 1586 and 1606 (since that's a twenty year gap it may not be the same William West), and this, from the Yorkshire Fines for 1594:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=49713
EASTER TERM, 36 ELIZABETH.

Richard Fenton, gent., and Jenetta his wife [vs] John West, gent., and Frances his wife [properties] Manor of Burghwallis and 60 messuages, 20 cottages, and 2 watermills with lands in Burghwallis, Skellowe, Carcrofte, Sutton, Campsall, Auston als. Ouston, Frickley, Elmesall, Upton, and Wrangbrooke, also the advowson of Burghwallis church. A warrant against William Gascoigne, esq., and his heirs.

"John West and Frances his wife"? Now is that Leonard's son, or grandson? And who is "Frances"?

Looks like *that* John West never went anywhere near Somerset....

Also, I cannot trace any descendants of Thomas Preston (1537-1598), the Cambridge scholar who so impressed Queen Elizabeth. His wife Alice is mentioned once or twice, but not whether he had any children.

If he did, Rev. John Preston (1587-1628) wasn't one of them, although his parents were, coincidentally, named Thomas and Alice. *His* father was a Northamptonshire farmer, and his studies were made possible by a rich uncle who adopted and sponsored him.

I'm not entirely sure there hasn't been a proto-Gustave Anjou at work on these lines.

Burke has the same bogus information too (Burke's landed Gentry) - which means this disinformation is very old and very widespread. I frankly wouldn't put it past the Banbury Wests to have done some glamorizing of the roots of their family tree, once they became "important" enough to matter.

Tree is correct enough from Richard West and Elizabeth Hill on down, but everything above them is partially to totally wrong. Richard's father *was* an Aholiab, but he didn't marry any "Elizabeth Preston" (who just may be a fictional person) - his wife's name was Mary and her birth name is (so far) unknown. And above Aholiab it's pure fiction.

It's pretty conclusive now: the John West who was Leonard West's son was not born in, did not live in, and had nothing to do with Banbury, Oxfordshire.

The John West who was born, lived, and died in Banbury, Oxfordshire, was not the son of Leonard West.

The Alscott Roberts-West line is descended from John West's brother James, who married Anne Wing.

So perhaps we need a new profile for John, son of Leonard West.

For Carole & Myrna

A couple of times I've attempted to confirm the West line from the de la Warr / Colonial America & failed miserably. It never worked in the least.

What Maven is building is beginning to explain why it failed.

You could simply revise the existing profile - delete the Banbury references from name and birth location (delete Drayton from death location, since it seems he was never there), and annotate the "About" section as needed.

I'm not sure whom he married, since "Mary Throckmorton" appears to be a fabrication and "Anne" belongs to James West of Banbury - the "Frances" in the Yorkshire Fines may or may not be a clue.

I tried to find out who Nicholas West's real parents were, with no luck - the Drayton parish records go back *almost* far enough but either just miss him, or he's the anonymous "West" with anonymous "West" parents who was baptized at St. Catherine's, Drayton, in Aug 1558 (otoh that could be a younger brother or sister, or other relative).

Private User of course this is your call but I would suggest disconnecting from existing parents, adding the correct ones, and having an "unknown" wife for now; in other words, Mary Throckmorton needs to stay with her parents with no known marriage.

Since this (what appears to be false) pedigree is widely spread and affects many people, the curating assistance in labeling and clarifying will be really helpful.

NB: I would think the managers want to be with the "real" ancestors, so to me, it's better to create new placeholder MP'd profiles for the ones who it appears are not.

I don't even think "Mary Throckmorton" is for real. All of Kenelm Throckmorton's other children seem to have been born after 1545, most of them *way* after, with "Mary" the only exception (ten years before the next-oldest).

Found out who it was that Kenelm Throckmorton *wanted* to marry c. 1535: Anne Hunckes, daughter of Thomas Hunckes of Radbrook, Gloucestershire, whose (first) hustand, a Thomas Littleton, had recently died. She would marry three times in all, but not to Kenelm Throckmorton. (Second husband was a George Willoughby, by whom she had five children, and the third was a Francis Boulstred, by whom she had a son named Thomas.) Visitation of the County of Worcester Made in the Year 1569....

Erica & Maven, I have no objection to your correcting this profile with the information that Maven has found. I will let you two do the surgery, as you have researched this more than I have. I do agree the there is a huge mistake here.
Thanks, Myrna

Need the Display Name field unlocked too - "of Banbury" has got to go.

Additionally, I think William was older than John - he's the one making presentations to the church at Burghwallis in 1586. But apparently John succeeded him by 1594, because the plaintiffs are suing him (and his wife Frances), not William.

The "William West" making a presentation in 1606 may be the by-now-adult son of either brother.

Somewhere along the line, very soon after that, the Anne family got their hands on Burghwallis and kept it.

Okay, removed the reference of Banbury from John West

What else should I add in the notes on the references to make it more clear what connections are correct?

Is the only thing then known about him is that he was the only surviving son of Barbara (Gascoigne) & Leonard West?

Apparently he wasn't the only surviving son - his older brother William also outlived his father, but it isn't clear that William left any offspring (it's not all that clear about John either).

Based on the scraps of information I've been able to find, the succession of Burghwallis seems to have gone Leonard, WIlliam, John, William, then George Anne (that's the family name, Anne) and his heirs.

The Annes' claim was apparently based on George's sister Elizabeth marrying Francis Gascoigne of Gawthorpe, and they thinking the manor of Burghwallis should have been left to them. Richard Fenton gets into it because his only daughter married George Anne. They made a couple of attempts to wrest the estate from the Wests (the Yorkshire Fines of 1594 illustrate at least the second attempt) and eventually succeeded (possibly once there were no more male Wests to dispute the case).

Ugh. I'm discovering that the Gascoignes are a horrendous mess *too*.

Basic information: The Gascoignes were established by the thirteenth century at Gawthorpe and Harewood; these estates passed in 1567 to the Wentworth family by the marriage of the Gascoigne heiress. (The junior branch acquired estates at Lasingcroft in 1392 and moved in the 16th century firstly to Barnbow near Leeds and then to Parlington Hall, Parlington, situated west of Aberford, near Leeds, acquired from the Wentworths in 1546.)

This makes references to "Kent" or other far distant parts of the kingdom rather suspicious.

Okay, I will add that nothing else is known about marriages or children of John West.

Too bad for all the people who thought a link through Nicholas West of Drayton connected them to the De la Warr family, but that's how it goes....

Okay, I will add that it is unclear about marriages or children of John West.

By the way, we need to remove the de la Warr arms from the Nicholas West family. I found a lovely picture of the church at St. Catherine's, Drayton, where they would all have been christened, and added that where I could (Nicholas, Joane, and John (3) ).

Somebody with Curator authority is going to have to take it from here.

I think John West of Burghwallis was married to someone named Frances - at least, the Yorkshire Fines seem to say so.

Richard Fenton, gent., and Jenetta his wife [vs.] John West, gent., and Frances his wife [over possession of] Manor of Burghwallis and 60 messuages, 20 cottages, and 2 watermills with lands in Burghwallis, Skellowe, Carcrofte, Sutton, Campsall, Auston als. Ouston, Frickley, Elmesall, Upton, and Wrangbrooke, also the advowson of Burghwallis church. A warrant against William Gascoigne, esq., and his heirs.

Mr Fenton appears to have been involved in a number of Fines cases, both as plaintiff and as defendant. Litigious fellow, maybe?

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=49713