Is it possible for GENI to hold onto records who have come into disfavor?

CASE in point: John Perratt II 1565 was not accepted as a real person until I found him in the notation of Oxford's Matriculation to Grey's Inn 1580 along with brothers William Perrott and Sir James Perrott sons of Sir John Perrott of Carew. It would have been better not to throw him aside and keep him in the Provisional Column because it helps to have a Name to research. DCR

Of course in your own desktop software you can easily create provisional lineages for your personal study and submit evidence for study when ready.

Thankyou for that suggestion Ms. Eerica: However, since I don't know the names of any of the offending files that are not supported by paper.....I cannot investigate them. As you know, when I put up a linkage, they were disconnected without my knowing who or why....So since that happened to me Im suggesting that perhaps a secondary investigative tree where we can work with what is believed to be known by family history , or what other families know to be the proper connection, we can spring board from that to actual paper trail verification. Without that starting point, we can't find the place to start. See Marches of Italy and connection to Churchill.

It is not possible for Geni software to do multiple "what if" lines the way you are thinking.

Most of the changes you've experienced have been simple error corrections, I believe -- not accepted / speculative genealogy.

A provisional tree for Aural histories seems like a collaborative great idea, so we don't lose the information until it's proved. That's all Im saying. It can compared to the Giant Tree which is proved by paper. If there is nothing found after 5 or 10 years then throw the file away. Richard III was 3 or 4 days in a castle with a known upline ancestor of my family. He sent the woman money after the child she bore was born. That line is disconnected and I don't have any idea how to get the name back. So rather than lose the file for investigation by disconnect, we should put it in a "To Be Verified by Paper Trail or Historical validation". Perhaps The great minds of GENI could suggest how that could be accomplished. I know there is a sister program which I have been referred to but I don't know that it can be checked against GENI information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_history

Dale -

I definitely agree - there is a problem when folks are chopped off - and then are floating without the parents and/or spouse or etc. - so you do not know who they are. For example - you know John Smith used to show a brother Randolph - now he does not - perhaps because your John Smith got merged with someone else's - who did not have such a brother, so the brother was cut loose - this can be a definite problem.

But - think now (tho think not way in the past) - Revisions shows who was cut loose -- ie, in Revisions Tab - "So-and-so was disconnected..." - I believe it gives "So-and-so" in blue and is a link - so click on it, and in a personal file of yours, save the URL for that profile, along with a note as to who he/she used to be connected to, etc. Then you can continue working on them, till you find a justification to re-connect them.

http://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Benjamin?from=60...

Thank you 7th cousin Benjamin for your reference on Oral History. Yesterday I tracked John Perrott of Paraketo Point to the family my father named in his testimony to me about the family....namely the Pruitt family married into the Perrott's as Dad had indicated...which makes his version 100% so far on the family connections and their descendants. I very much want to thank you and your family for being kind to me in my earliest days here. Things got sadly messy over time....but now that we have established that John Perratt II 1565 really did exist as my father said he did by the Oxford papers of Matriculation to Grey's Inn....well it's not hard to imagine that the son of a LEADER of the Puritan Movement in England as Sir John Perrott 1528 WAS could swing placement of an a spare boy named John Rice 1630 fathered in less than happy circumstance. I want you to know I have not forgotten those Kindness's even though some hard things passed between my self and others. It is a shocking story, but all the figures named are real and the DNA trail links back to the person's named.

Thanks Lois Lubin too for your suggestion: I did not know that I could save the information once disconnected....sadly the 8 lines which have been cut I can scarcely recall at my age....not almost 67 years. doing the best I can at retaining short term memory...but I can see the drop in accuracy. If anyone cares. John Parrott of Paraketo Point married Prunella and he arrived in Virginia 1623 as the indentured servant of Justin's family member. Son Robert had son Robert and he had Richard who had Richard, and one of the Robert's had a matching link to the Perrott DNA study of Lawrence Perrott. Now the reason I bring it up at all is because Richard's Daughter married a Pruitt....named by my father in 1978. I know he did because I grew up near a family named Pruitt when I was 12 years old and used them as a Mnemonic marker to remember the name. So you see...in enough time the story has come to have legs, now founded upon a DNA trail. Thanks to all. DCR

http://www.geni.com/path/Thomas-Weaver+is+related+to+Dale-C-Rice?fr...

Let us no longer allow our differences of opinion (or style of research) to distract us from the pursuit of the truth, for in the history of this world there are countless times that the facts of the matter have been proven to be stranger than even the most outlandish fiction.

(But of course we should not use this realization as an excuse to "make things up" when the facts that we can find do not serve our cause.)

Keep stirring that pudding, Cousin Dale.
There are more than a few interested parties wondering what might float to the surface . . .

Dale,
Please see the About for Klein Joerg Weber, WB

There you will observe a preferred method for preserving a line that has been cut. Using this system allows for the curious member to view both the end of the proven line, and the continuation of the speculative path.

This method also allows one to "keep track of things" and update the lineage if and when it becomes necessary to do so.

(Of course a person shouldn't need to make changes very often.)

I recently discovered the Morgan family name.....interesting that it comes from WALES and means "Man Near the Sea". (Wales being the setting my father never named, but it's the location for Perrott ap Rice, whom he did name.). Being a" romantic" and having sailed some 35,000 miles on the Pacific during my time in the US Navy, this name has very strong appeal to me. Thanks for the reference to the Weaver family 1560's...that's way back and I did not remember that name from the 1978 conversation.

The Perrott DNA project has my family referenced in their project immediately above Lawrence Perrott's family and I share most of the important DNA on Y chromosome with Lawrence....interesting that the project manager traces his DNA to the I-1 Branch and until I showed up there were only two such persons in the entire R1b Perrott family project, His, Lawrence, and Now, John Rice. That is not proof, but it points to the reason we are following the Perrott Name in this search for the TRUTH.

The William Dudley of Guileford, Cn. of 1608 is now a 20/25 match on Y chromosome with John Rice of Dedham, Ma. 1630. The family connection which allowed John Rice to be placed into the Puritan enclave is a fundtion of Sir John Perrott's positon as Leader of Puritans in the Queens Privy Chamber, and his son Sir James Perrott of Havorford West who inherited lands and positon from his father also a Puritan Leader. Placement of the lad was no doubt part of the kindness extended to Non-Conformist Preachers by Sir JOhn Perrott 1528 while a part of the Queens Privy council, upto his attainder in 1592.

Ms. Erica: I hope to find a reference to correspond to the Oral history of my father which states that John Rice 1630, about age 10 upon arrival in Dedham, was placed with the Non-Conformist Reverend John Allin.

Surely there must be a family Diary or History to reference that kind of care for a child? Where would you suggest I look? I have already seen reference to a "Family Disturbance" in England regarding the family I believe had care of John Rice 1630 before they arrived in 1638. Thanks in advance for whatever you can steer me toward. DCR

http://www.geni.com/path/Mary-Marsh+is+related+to+Mary-Hall?from=60...

Ms. Erica: Please check out this linkage to my father'sMaternal side. Clarissa E. Marsh is a cousin it seems to the Grand daughter of Charles I via the Taylor to Marsh . I have a tree conflict that I don't know how to resolve...and this Taylor link was told to me but I didn't know who they were. DCR

http://www.geni.com/path/King-James-I-of-England-and-VI-of-Scotland...

This is the other side of the family linkage to Taylor-Marsh which is direct to the Dedham Rices. fyi DCR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search/English_ship_Swallow_(1...

The Ship Swallow is named here and by Samuel G. Rice in Oct. 1978 as being the name of a vessel once known as ? renamed and then lost at sea.This particular reference show Perrott 4 being listed along side the named "Swallow" vessel built 1657 is one of the many incarnations of that named vessel. FYI there are at least 6 named vessels from 1509-1657.

For anyone following: The Rice's arrived in Ma. about 1640 with a 10 or 11 year old John RIce who had been in the care of Tamzine and Edmund Rice in East Anglia England from about 1630-1638 when they left for America and did not take the child born to Perrott ap Rice's daughter, Margaret ap Rice 1618, with them. Perrott ap Rice 1598 was declared Dead about 1640 (disappeared) owing almost 700 lbs sterling, and is believed to have taken the boy to Ma. 1640-1641 along with his father, one John Perratt II 1565 of Carew Castle. Listed by Oxford as the son of Sir JOhn Perrott 1528 and Sybil Johns. This is an AURAL history which has proved to be backed up by Historical persons, places, and now ship, lost at sea as my father told me. Instead, the ship and it cargo were stolen from Cromwells Army and used in trading on the James River in Virginia 1641-1657 when it was sold according to the Early Virginia Register. The person known as John Rice Hughes or Captain Reece Hughes is the person who established the trading post on the James River with this ship called the "Swallow" along with a Native woman...posibly the renowned Necotowanasee, a cousin of Powhattan Princess Pocohantas, and niece of Cleopatra the Powhattan Chief's Sister or sister in law. What ever the story turns out to be....John Rice Hughes died 1658 = John Perratt II 1565 who died in Virginia on the James River trading post,at an advanced age of 93, same as my father, Samuel G. Rice 1887. The DNA Trail leads us not only to the Davis line of Virginia, but to the Native line of G.J. Floyd and others leading to supreme ct. Justice Robert Hughes. This story has legs, and the sinking of the swan was part of the Aural History.

Re: Ms. Erica: I hope to find a reference to correspond to the Oral history of my father which states that John Rice 1630, about age 10 upon arrival in Dedham, was placed with the Non-Conformist Reverend John Allin.

You would want to look up the date of Rev Allin's

- arrival in America
- assumption of the pastorship of the church at Dedham

This info should be readily available on his Geni profile or links within it, and you should find his profile in the John Rice of Dedham project.

For those following along: the parents of John Rice, first noted in records on his marriage in Dedham Massachusetts in 1646, is not known.

Thankyou for that reference. just fyi: records point to the marriage off John Rice of Dedham and Ann Hackley (Allin?) as November 27, 1649....not 1646 unless you have some news.

Secondly: I ask you again to look at these family member in all blue here on Geni and to render an opinion if you think they hold up? If they do, then we have a DNA reason and linkage to why my father is the spitting image of Charles I. Google and check for yourself.

http://www.geni.com/path/Joanna-Taylor+is+related+to+William-Rice?f...

http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw01221/King...

https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000013463839522?photo_id=600000...

https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000013463839522?album_type=&amp...=

https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000013463839522?album_type=&amp...=

https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000013463839522?album_type=&amp...=

MS. ERICA:

Reference William Dudley 1609 ancestor to R. Dudley here on Geni who states he is I-1 Haplogroup. I have established that John Rice of Dedham matches the Sutton-Dudley line of men at DYS 449 31/37 sites and I match 30/37....meaning his values are closer than mine at this allele. Please see how the two famlies identified by my father's testimony link up according to GENI as accepted lines of affiliation. The Sutton administrator has been asked to examine this connection of John Rice 1630 of Dedham to their Sutton unassigned file because of the exact same ending of alleles 31 through 37. I will advise you once I have their expert opinion. in the mean time, kindly review this linkage first suggested by Samuel G. Rice 1887 who claimed to be the 8th ggrandson ofSir Robert Dudley.

http://www.geni.com/path/John-Parrott+is+related+to+William-Dudley-...

Is it not clear to you here at GENI that my FAther's testimony about the linkage to the Kings of ENGLAND was 100% accurate and that he had a direct blood ancestory to CHARLES I?
http://www.geni.com/path/Joanna-Taylor+is+related+to+William-Rice?f...

Please explain how Geni's computer identifying

William Rice is Joanna Taylor (Brydges)'s fifth cousin 9 times removed's half sister's husband!

Is a genetic match.

Please explain how

William Dudley, of Guilford is John Parrott, of Paraketo Point's grandson's wife's third great aunt's husband's great niece's husband's father!

BTW, it is improbable that the CT early arriver, from Dorking, Suffolk, is at all related to Gov Dudley of MA, from Northumberland, England.

Both men lived before King Charles l.

Guilford William Dudley has direct descendants on Geni and there is a peer reviewed article in The Genealogist making his ancestry clear. It is only trackable to about 1550 I think. There were quite a few Dudley families in Dorking. They were wheelwrights.

After all we have been through I should know better than to "take the bait" . But I can't resist the urge to point out yet another very bright red flag.

To wit;

" . . .in the mean time, kindly review this linkage first suggested by Samuel G. Rice 1887 who claimed to be the 8th ggrandson ofSir Robert Dudley."

If S.G.R. did in fact claim to be the 8th GGS of Sir Robert Dudley, then why are we just hearing about it now, after years of heated discussion re the Rice lineage?

Of course we already know the answer to this question, which is clearly rhetorical, and so does not need to be answered.

I simply want you to understand that my Father's assertion was based upon more than his recollection...the link to James I by blood to his grandmother Hall shows his features as clearly a grandson of CHARLES I. I have to assume you looked.

Second, His knowledge of insider family secret information like the birth of John Rice to a 13 year old, and the disinheritence of John Perratt II 1565, raised in the household of Sir John Perrott was not known to anyone here until I proved it. The associations of persons by marriage is what links any family together....and since they did not have modern distractions, they spent a considerable time on Ancestory or I would have no trail to follow to John Perratt II.

If you don't understand that My DNA LINK to Wm. Dudley is a fact seperated by 2 markers of 37, then I have nothing further to offer to you as there is no easy paper trail. I have led you to fresh water....and yet you refuse the most simple observation. The Dudley line is our Rice Bloodline source. This has always been about INDUCTIVE reasoning....and if you don't get it Im sorry. The people, places named by my father are now proved by historical documents and DNA. Even the named ship "SPARROW" is listed with the name of JOhn Perrott as he told me.

Benjamin: My father did not use the term 8th ggrands son, he said "he was like a prince but not a prince = Robert Dudley. John Perratt II raised in the household of Sir John Perrott 1528 was named specifically as the father of JOHN RICE of Dedham our agreed DNA 6th ggf. I worked out the 8th and used it just now to help you see how this now hangs together as it did not 3 years ago. Please take a moment and review the photo's. DCR

Ms. Erica: The Elizabeth Hall married to William Rice is the source of DNA to my father who is the doppleganger of Charles I. Kindly look at the images I provided. There is a better family photo of Samuel G. Rice and it will become even more clear once posted. I am simply awaiting confirmation from the Sutton Family study to find the Exact Sutton-Dudley Line to which we clearly belong according to the DNA trail. Then I will ship all the photographic evidence along with the analysis and historical references to Dr. Manfred Kayser of Hofstra University for his review. Believe me when I tell you that the court of Public Opinion will be overwhelming once you see the evidence assembled. I have never lost a case in court. I have argued to a draw twice, but I recovered 3 times the damages inflicted on my employer at the time. It's nearly settled in my view, and I will be interested in the good professors assesment. The very thing I said has to be operating in DNA is a multiplier effect of down line Tudor/Stewart DNA when it is refreshed 3 or 4 generations downline. Not divided....MULTIPLIED. DCR

Dale,

Please understand clearly & signal your assent

- There are direct line descendants of William Dudley of Guilford on Geni.
- They are not Tudor or Plantagenets.
- This William Dudley does not descend from the Sutton Dudley's.
- Dudley is a common name.
- you do not demonstrate a geni relationship to this family.

I believe you are looking at the wrong profiles on Geni.

Dale - the photo links do not work, I get an error message: you do not have permission to view.