Рюрик Свеаланд Новгородский князь - Locations

Hi Alex,

I don't understand the language that you wrote but I copied it over to Geni.com and the computer was able to translate to Rurik, Prince of Novgorod. Oh the wonders of the computer! Rurik is my31st great grandfather. Thanks for the information and revisions.

John Pat

Novogorod was first mentioned 859, that doesn't mean that that place didn't exist before that and Rurik was alive under that same period, since he probably died around 879.

The name, Rus, or, ros, is most likely also the reason for the name "Roslagen", a place in east part of Uppland, in what then was known as Svitjod. Rurik, Rjurik, Rörik, Hrörekr. The Cyrillic alphabet was taken in use sometime between 860-890.

Рюрик Свеаланд Новгородский князь is my 28th great grandfather.

I have removed the parents just now., since they is not any parents known to Ruric

John, i'm pretty sure it's Russian Cyrllic.

Ulf, i don't want to argue with you mate, why don't you email the archaeologists and debate it with them.

"Archaeological excavations in the middle to late 20th century, however, have found cultural layers dating back only to the late 10th century, the time of the Christianization of Rus' and a century after it was allegedly founded, suggesting that the chronicle entries mentioning Novgorod in the 850s or 860s are later interpolations.[14] Archaeological dating is fairly easy and accurate to within 15–25 years, as the streets were paved with wood, and most of the houses made of wood, allowing for tree ring dating."
[14] V. L. (Valentin Lavrentyevich) Ianin and M. Kh. (Mark Khaimovich) Aleshkovsky, "Proskhozhdeniye Novgoroda: (k postanovke problemy)," Istoriya SSSR 2 (1971): 32-61.

Anette, i'm glad you have removed the father as that was a problem i was not sure how to tackle.
I think we should leave Ruric connected to his "mother" Umila, not because there is good evidence for it but because if we disconnect it today it is such a popular myth that someone will merge in another Ruric "tomorrow" with a mother over whom we have no control, if you get my meaning.

I just did a quick clean up of Rurik's "grandfather", i was going to suggest he be made a MP with a Curator note "Legendary/Fictional Ancestor of Rurik the mythical founder of Russia".

Старейшина Новгородский Гостомысл, легендарный старейшина ильменских

PS, there are at least 3 other Gostomysl's on Geni, ill look at merging them all tonight

Well we can reconnect the mother and make sure to state that the father is unknown

Louis le pieux who was contemporary with Rurik stated that they were originally from Sweden, "svear", then we have the Nestor chronicle from
200 year later saying pretty much the same thing, well, he is said to have sources that today are lost, but the things he take up are regarded as very trustful. Secondly, this particular group of Svear were most likely a mix between danish and finish people, probably according to some stories they had married women from the Huns, making them multicultural even back then. Lastly, Igor I, his name is rusificated to that, so I would also prefer the name Ingvar even stands in his name field, so that it stands clear that they where of Scandinavian origin.

When the average Geni user reads "Rurik was from Sweden" my opinion is that they will think of the modern political entity.

The Primary Chronicle (translated to English obviously) says about Rurik's origins:
"Thus they went overseas to the Varangians, to the Rus. These particular Varangians were known as Rus', just as some are called Swedes, and others Normans and Angles, and still others Gotlanders, for they were thus named." [To clarify, apparently "Normans" in this case refers to Norwegians and "Angles" to Danes.]

So it seems reasonable to me to say from that sentence "There was a group of people known as the Varangians and this group was subdivided into Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Gotlanders and Rus and Ruric was a Rus." This does nothing to clarify where Rurik came from other than "Scandinavia", in my opinion.

As for renaming Igor I as Ingvar i'd suggest that if you do this you change the profile name to Ingvar but set the Display Name as "Igor I" and also add "Igor" and "Igor I" to the AKA field. That way everyone should understand what you have done and future merging should be easy.

Some more:
http://kremlion.ru/praviteli/rurik
http://rusrulers.info/rjurik-biografija/
http://kazna.org/info/31-osnovanie-rusi-knyaz-ryurik-862-879-gody.html
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%8E%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BA

Please have a look at the translation of "Ruser" into english from the swedish wikipedia :

Rus ( Latin : Ruthenia) was the peoples , according to the Chronicle originating in Scandinavia (compare the Finnish name for Sweden, Ruotsi, or the Estonian name, Rootsi) which shall have founded Kievan Rus . The Slavic form was "Rus'" and the apostrophe is a transliteration of the Cyrillic letter " ь "(soft sign) and thus pronounced as" rusj "(soft" s "on the end, not the sound" sh ").

Rus called the people who probably inhabited the Roslagen , the Åland Islands and parts of the coast of Finland "the actual Finland "during the Migration Period.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsv.wikipedia.o...

I think this passage in Gostomsl's About is a quote of Tatishchev ?

"Three daughters were married to neighboring princes of Gostomysl, and his four sons died during his lifetime. ... and they sent a request to the Varangians to the princes for his daughter to be grooms. The answer to the call came after the death of Gostomysl, it was Rurik with his two brothers."

I think it is usually interpreted as Umila being rurik's mother but it looks to me like she could be his wife.

Does anyone know where the birth date of 817 for Ruric comes from?
It is quite common in what i have read and i don't disagree with it, just curious as to the source.

If born in 817 that would make him 45 when he assumes power of Russia in 862 which seems reasonable to me.

I can read it because i know Ukrainian cyrillics. ;-). So no worries from my end. Besides guys there is Google translate or Bing. Both work fairly well for translation.

Alex, speaking just from memory (and definitely not doing any research here), Rurik is more commonly said to have been born about 830. The 817 date comes from attempts to identify him with Rorik of Dorestad, who must have been a bit older.

There is a Rurikid DNA project at FTDNA project that believes they have triangulated his descendants as haplogroup N1c1. In the Scandinavian DNA project we see that N1c1 is primarily Finnish, so that is perhaps a better clue to Rurik's origins.

Justin, In that case i will change Rurik to c.830 as then i can leave his mother as c820 and can also leave her ancestors dates as they are :)

Malodie, i've found Google Translate does a poor job of Cyrillic to English, maybe i'll try Bing next time.

Private User

why have you connected Olaf as a father for Rurik?

Combining all the sagas, myths, legends and different sources
and crosschecking that with different clues gives only one conclusion that is most likely and credibly and that is what the most historians
will come up with, or they could also just say that nothing before
the year 1200 is certain.

Read
http://en.rodovid.org/wk/Person:559

Ulf,

The site your link leads to is no better than referencing an Ancestry.com tree.

Admittedly there are a few reference links on the Rurik page but as they lead to Cyrillic texts they aren't much help, and the quality of the other pages is even worse which reduces the site's credibility even more.

Иоакимовская летопись сообщает: Гостомысл, глава ободритов и варяжских племен южного побережья Балтии, завещал княжение внуку, Рюрику (Свеаланду Новгородскому). Четыре сына Годомысла погибли, не оставив детей, муж старшей дочери "был негож", и наследника родила средняя дочь Умила в замужестве за одним из князей в соседних варяжских землях.
И наша семья - потомки по прямой (Ржевские)

Gostomysl, King of the Obodrites is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 36th great grandfather!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Gostomysl-Kin...