I am searching for Ancestors going Back to Ireland Family name Martin Harvey to William to Charles Martin who voyeged in 1867

Stephen there are 4 people with the name Charles Martin baptised between 1818 and 1824 two from them in county Antrim (now NI)
Found the following baptisms

Hugh Martin baptised 21-Feb-1847 Clondavaddog county Donegal, father Charles Martin, mother Susan Price, sponsor James Martin, this was a Roman Catholic event

Mary Martin date of birth 01-Jul-1864 Doagh-beg Co.Donegal father Charles, mother Susan Price, occupation of father: Weaver

I found these records on www.rootsireland.ie there should be more, take note it is a subscription website

Price seems to be a Roman Catholic name up in the North of Ireland looking at records of other people with the name Price

OK I am comparing Paper work here. I have three sources here one is looking at the gravestone that I have a picture of that I got off of at

: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=120472639

The headstone says he died at June 21, 1887 at age 73 so 1887 minus 73, I get 1814.

the Next item is the passenger list of Minnehaha he is passenger # 75 lists his age as 45 the Minnehaha left Londonderry, Ireland and arrived in New York on 25th of May 1867 so 1867 minus 45 equals 1822.

The Third Paper source Item I have is the 1880 DuBois, Clearfield County Census. The Census instructs to give age at Prior to Jan 1880 which is 1879. Charles age is listed as age 65. So 1879 minus 65 is 1814

2 Ages agree with each other, the headstone age and the 1880 Census age both agree on 1814 as Charles's birth year. Why the Minnehaha Passenger list has an 8 year difference in his birth year I do not know. Maybe he got a cheaper ticket if he was younger or something like that, reason for not telling the truth I can only guess at or maybe this passenger is a different Charles but he has the same wife and Kid's though that match up with the other paperwork that I have.

Hugh Martin on gravestone and 1880 Census I have his age born at 1850 with Minnehaha at age 14 that reached New York in 1867 places his birth year at 1853 with a 3 year age difference between the manifest and the other 2 records. Your 1847 is another 3 years difference from 1850. But what looks really good is his parents names are Charles and Susan (Price)

Mary Martin from Findagrave I have this : Birth: Aug. 23,1867 County Donegal, Ireland, Death: Apr. 15, 1919, Du Bois, Clearfield County
Pennsylvania, USA. On Minnehaha Manifest she was 2 years old, and Mary was 15 in the 1880 Census, means she was 15 in 1879. So on Minnehaha she was born in 1865, and when I do the subtraction thing on the 1880 Census which is subtracting 15 from 1779 I get 1864 exactly what you have up there in Doagh-beg, County of Donegal entry you have up there, so that looks like an exact match to me. Thank you for looking into this. You did guess one thing correctly I do not want to spend money on this research, at least not yet, I may have to though if I want to continue this search.. All in all you had a fantastic find though much better then I could get with out spending money for it LOL . The Hugh Martin thing might be correct also if the Martins moved around from town to town. I have no idea if they moved from where Hugh was born to where Mary was born but it is certainly possible. Either way its a fantastic find and I appreciate it, wonderful effort and research on your part ..thank you!!

Stephen even headstone dates are not always correct and the dates on census record are often estimated, often people did not know the exact birth year of their family members, some people did not even know their own exact year at that time.

So far we have these children that match and there were not that many people in Ireland with the name Charles Price (Scots-English name, not Irish from origin) I also find it too much of a co-incidence that this Charles also married a Susan Price, I am 98% certain this is the family you are looking for.

*Hugh Martin baptised 21-Feb-1847 Clondavaddog county Donegal, father Charles Martin, mother Susan Price, sponsor James Martin, this was a Roman Catholic event

*Mary Martin date of birth 01-Jul-1864 Doagh-beg Co.Donegal father Charles, mother Susan Price, occupation of father: Weaver

*William Martin baptised 16-Apr-1854 Clondavaddog co Donegal, father Charles Martin mother Susan Price

*Edward Martin baptised 04-Sep-1859 Clondavaddog Co Donegal, parents Charles Martin and Price

* Charles Martin born 11 August 1850 in Clondavaddog father Charles Martin mother Susan

The find a grave record for Mary Martin you have belongs to this Mary
born 04-Jul-1867 baptised in August in Clarlougheske Co Donegal, father Bryan Martin mother Catherine Martin

There is no record for a Hugh born or baptised in 1850, there is a 1848 Hugh with a father Denis Martin, and the Hugh born Feb 1847 with Charles and Susan as parents.

I am going to up date those Profiles with that information, your resources are much better then mine, and I can also see you do a lot of work in this area, so you know what your talking about and I respect that. I appreciate the attention you have given to this matter your work has ben excellent ..once again thank you very much you have given me a lot of information to continue my research further. Your help has narrowed my quest down to Clondavaddog Co. Donegal. I did not know that was where they are from and now I do know that so that is a vast improvement right there just to know what town or borough they came from and the years I am dealing with. The fact that a lot of records got burned in the 1917 fire really scared me into thinking that I might not ever find any thing about these ancestors. Your success though has shown me there is hope though. So thank you again for that.

oohhh I all most forgot. You might all ready know this but did you know Cause your a long lost cousin of mine that you would be related to Dolor Davis also the same as me? I am sure you know that though. Your branch of Family, branches off at Nathan Davis Junior . So your my 26th cousin once removed. Your the longest most Distant cousin I have met yet LOL. Just thought I would let you know in case you didn't. Nathan Davis Junior was my (4times) great great great great grand father.

you have listed Sponsor James Martin, I guess a sponsor can be any body but could be a direct family member like father or older brother maybe. another lead to Charles Family?

Sponsors and witnesses are siblings most of the time but there are always exceptions to this rule so without any proof we can not use this as a fact. I will have a look what else I can find.

I found out a few things about the land arrangement they have in Ireland the top section is the county the County that the Martins came from was Donegal the next division down is Barony which in my case is Kilmacrenan, the next division is the Union my union is Millford the next smaller division is the Parish which is Clondavaddog, and the smallest division is the Townland in my case it is Doagh Beg, The Earl of Leitrim owned most of this land and was renting out to Charles and some members of his family. James was a land renter also, still have no idea who he is but I am thinking might be Charles's brother. There land plots was close to each other. Charles was renting lot 32-1-25 there is like three housed on that lot now but none of these houses but one was up in the 1850's

I take it you looked at the Griffiths valuation?
1858 two Charles' in the parish of Clondavaddog
Your Charle would have been too young to be renting a farm unless he was born earlier then we thought. One of the Charles's below could have been his father or a cousin

Tenant
Family Name 1 MARTIN
Forename 1 CHARLES
Landlord
Family Name 2 LEITRIM
Forename 2 EARL OF
Location
County DONEGAL
Barony KILMACRENAN
Union MILLFORD
Parish CLONDAVADDOG
Townland FANAVOLTY
Place Name FANAVOLTY
Place Type TOWNLAND

Tenant
Family Name 1 MARTIN
Forename 1 CHARLES
Landlord
Family Name 2 LEITRIM
Forename 2 EARL OF
Location
County DONEGAL
Barony KILMACRENAN
Union MILLFORD
Parish CLONDAVADDOG
Townland DOAGHBEG
Place Name DOAGHBEG
Place Type TOWNLAND

yes I was bumping around in google trying to find land information in northern Ireland and found Griffiths Valuation, so you nailed it. The Charles that was born in 1850 was Charles and Susan Prices son. Charles's father was born in either 1814 or 1822 depending on if you want to believe the grave stone or census, both say 1814 or the Minnehaha manifest that places him born in 1822. So I guess he was born some where between 1814 to 1822. So this Charles here that was married to Susan Price is old enough to rent land. In 1858 this Charles was either 44 if he was born in 1814 or he was 36 if he was born in 1822. I am leaning more to The Second Charles you have listed up there because he rented his land in Doaghbeg because his Daughter Mary was born in Doaghbeg. I made a mistake earlier when I made that move around comment, they didn't have to move around at all because Doaghbeg is part of Clondavaddog Parish. So it depends on the reporting level your at ,if your reporting to a census from the town land level you would report your place as Doaghbeg if your reporting to a census at the Parish level and being in that parish you would report your residence as being in Clondavaddog. I was mistaken in believing they had to move around to be in those places. They can be in both those places at the same time because they reside in each section of that larger piece. What is a little confusing is Kilmacrenan is also a town land where Kilmacrenan Town Land is a small area and Kilmacrenan Barony is much larger area, Millford is also a Town Land, but Millford Union is a much bigger area.

I ben starting to think why did Charles Martin and wife Susanna leave Ireland. I think the culprit of the story is William Clements 3rd Earl of Leitrim.
On his father's death in 1854, Clements succeeded as 3rd Earl. In 1855 he was promoted Lieutenant-Colonel and subsequently retired from the British Army. Over the next two decades, his overbearing behavior as a landlord brought him much hatred from his tenants, both Catholic and Protestant alike, whom he evicted with equal enthusiasm. William saw the Irish population boom coming and realized that the land could not possibly hold so many tenants. William encouraged his evicted tenants to settle in the Americas where they could have had a better quality of life. Previously I thought that Charles and wife Susanne was starving to death from the potato Famine. This turned out to be not true. William Clements some how found a reason to evict a lot of his land renters. I was wondering what guise he was using to evict his tenants with. I can only assume that he would raise the amount of rent of the land. When the tenants could not pay the higher amount by a certain amount of time he would evict them at that time. The Article in Wikipedia that I read about William Clements said that William encouraged his tenants to move to America. What is not clear to me is how far did he go in this encouragement. Is he willing to Pay for the ticket to America? I know have a different understanding as to why Charles and Susanne left. Mostly it is because they was evicted by William and Williams beliefs that, that part of Irelands land and its over population could not support that many people. One thing I noted in Griffiths Valuation was the Modern Map and the 1858 map you can superimpose the two and see how many houses was in Doaghbeg township in 1858 and how man are there now. in 1858 there was like 15 to 20 structures in the town ship each structure being pretty long maybe a 100 yards or so long. In the modern satellite map in Doaghbeg in Doaghbeg township there are like 5 structures and look to be farm related Structures. It looks like William Clements got his way in depopulating Doaghbeg and many other townships. I never knew that one person could singlehandedly evict so many people and be responsible for such a large migration.

I have to revise my previous statement, Potato Famine and Starvation was part of the equation of deciding to leave Ireland.Phytophthora infestans must have ben Charles Problem in the 1845 and 46 and 47 potato crop. Charles and his family was living in a Cotter, arrangement with his land lord. Charles would pay rent with his potato's that he grew. Charles lived in a potato dependent economy. Charles paid his rent in potato's if he received any pay from the land lord for working on the farm he would be paid in potato's. So if Charles has a bad crop of infested potato's this system breaks down. The vast amount of potato's grown in northern Ireland could not be eaten by the farmers because what ever potato's was harvested was due to the land lord in rent and the land Lord would turn around and sell the potato's he got from Charles and sell them in England, Mean while Charles and his family would go with out. William Clement had absolute authority over his tenants he could do any thing he want to with out impunity. He could evict his tenant for any reason at all or for no reason at all just because he wanted to. The Tenants had very few rights in those days, there would be attempts in improving this like the Catholic emancipation in 1829. During the 18th century, the "middleman system" for managing landed property was introduced. Rent collection was left in the hands of the landlords' agents, or middlemen. This assured the landlord of a regular income, and relieved them of direct responsibility, while leaving tenants open to exploitation by the middlemen. However, the impact of the potato blithe in Ireland was disproportionate, as one third of the population was dependent on the potato for a range of ethnic, religious, political, social, and economic reasons, such as land acquisition, absentee landlords, and the Corn Laws, which all contributed to the disaster to varying degrees and remain the subject of intense historical debate. William Clements was probably an absentee Land lord and used a middle man to collect his rent due to him. This whole situation was why Charles either left voluntarily or was evicted involuntarily. Charles could not even vote or be a member of Parliament because he was Irish Catholic. They was was prohibited from owning land. In the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish Catholics had been prohibited by the Penal Laws from purchasing or leasing land, from voting, from holding political office, from living in or within 5 miles (8 km) of a corporate town, from obtaining education, from entering a profession, and from doing many other things necessary for a person to succeed and prosper in society. The laws had largely been reformed by 1793, and the Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 allowed Irish Catholics to again sit in parliament. Even the potato it self kept Charles restricted.The Irish Lumper is noted for its ability to flourish on garden beds that are poor in nutrients, wet-footed, or both. This is the only potato that would grow well on Charles's Land and this was the potato that was suseptical to Phytophthora infestans. This is why Charles left for a better life in America.

Very informative. I like the way you are working through the scenarios.

Thank you I am learning one step at a time sort of Discovering things as I do my research. Fore instance I learned about William Clements 3rd Earl of Leitrim first so I thought he was the main culprit in the beginning .Then I researched the Potato Famine it self in a broader context and found out a lot more stuff going on simultaneously With Charles Land Lord Problems.

All this came together like a perfect storm Scenario. Parliament in London really didn't care about the Irish. Because England conquered Ireland Before the Famine they made a bunch of laws highly restricting the Irishmen they made the only alternative food source more expensive (corn) by putting a tariff on it to protect the English corn growers. Charles's land lords was on a rampage to evict the tenants from the small land plots that was only big enough for the potato crop, the Irish Lumper potato. Charles had no future at all in this situation, he had few right to improve his lot. I thinking the only choice available was to go to America where he could be free to pursue a better endeavor.

Now that the land had no more tenants on it William Clements was now free to put Cows, pigs, sheep on it to graze there where he would make more money on the cows, pigs sheep then he would make from the potatoes. So William was able to increase his land profits now.

William was one of the lucky ones, most farm produce was sold by the English landlords and shipped back to England under army protection leaving the Irish farmers with barely enough to feed them self some did not have enough and died other option was emigrating