Childéric III, King of the Franks - Tree Conflict left after careless merging

Started by Sharon Doubell on Monday, October 3, 2016
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10/3/2016 at 5:56 AM

Colin Bruce Milne you've left a tree conflict on this profile after power merging in the Medieval Tree. https://www.geni.com/projects/Medieval-Tree-Clean-Up-Please-Park-Un... . Please come and help us clear it up before you continue power merging. A couple of clicks by you can cause hours of research work for someone else who has to choose between parents on a conflict, and we're battling to get enough Curators and users who are prepared to do it, when it keeps happening.

12/12/2021 at 4:46 PM

In addition to his parentage being uncertain, there's nothing documenting his wife or any children on his Wikipedia page or in his profile.

So are any of the pathways on Geni connecting to him correct? He shows as my direct ancestor, but I can't find anything to validate he's even the father of Theoderic of the Franks.

In fact, I tried to validate any of the next few generations down from Theordoric and the link that is given as a source:

http://www.goldlauter.com/Gressler-Ahnen/ps172/ps172_402.html

doesn't work.

12/12/2021 at 9:29 PM

Good point.

Here's what we have:
The precise parentage of King Childerich III is unknown, although the sources quoted below indicate an imprecise relationship with his predecessor. Settipani discusses the different theories regarding his parentage[511], but there appears to be no basis for deciding which of them may be correct. In the late 19th century, Levillain, after noting various theories maintaining that he was the son of either Theoderich IV or Chilpéric II, supported Doinel’s hypothesis which suggested that Clotaire IV was his father[512]. Doinel’s theory is based on the spurious charter dated 15 Mar [749], quoted below, in which King Dagobert III was named “sobrinus” of Childerich III. He suggests that the term “désigne un cousin issu de germain”, equating it with “consobrinus”[513]. Doinel hypothesises therefore that Childerich III was the son of a brother of Dagobert’s father. He then suggests that the following document indicates that Childebert III, father of Dagobert III, had a brother named Chlothachar/Clotaire: "Childeberthus rex Francorum" confirmed rights to receipts from annual markets at Saint-Denis to "Mamacas", referring to previous grants by “a longo tempore Chlodovius quondam avus noster, seu et posthia avunculus noster Childericus, vel domnus noster et genetur noster Theudericus, eciam et germanus noster Chlodocharius, per eorum precepcionis”, by charter dated 13 Dec 710[514]. Doinel concludes that the last-named “germanus noster Chlodocharius” could not indicate the known brother of Childebert III, King Clovis III (“l’on en a conclu, très arbitrairement d’ailleurs, que ce Chlotaker et Chlodewig III ne faisaient qu’un même personnage”) and that he was therefore an otherwise unrecorded brother of Childebert III whom he identifies as the later King Clotaire IV (who would then have been Childerich III’s father)[515]. The theory is flawed:

Firstly, the 13 Dec 710 document clearly lists Childebert III’s predecessors not his successors: primary sources (of which more survive for the late 7th than the mid-8th century) establish Clovis III as Childebert’s immediate predecessor, the name difference presumably being explained by a mistranscription or simple error in the original manuscript (like “Chilperichus” for “Childerichus” in the 15 Mar [749] document).

Secondly, the parentage of Clotaire IV is in any case uncertain as explained above.

Thirdly, the term “sobrinus” would normally indicate a relationship between generations, either nephew or son of a first cousin.

Fourthly, the existence of other unrecorded members of the Merovingian royal family cannot be excluded and is even likely.

The inevitable conclusion is that Childerich III’s parentage remains unknown.

1. CHILDERICH (-after 752). The Gesta Abbatum Fontanellensium names "Theoderici regis, patris Hilderici…regis novissimi ex genere Merovingorum"[516], another in a later passage naming him more generally "Hildericus rex, Merovingorum ex genere ortus…"[517]. "Childerichus rex Francorum" names "parens noster Theudericus quondam rex" in his charter dated 23 Apr 743[518], the use of the word "parens" suggesting a remote relationship, assuming that the charter refers to King Theoderich IV. He was installed as CHILDERICH III King of the Franks [16 Feb/3 Mar] 743 by Pépin "le Bref" [Carolingian], after the interregnum which followed the death of King Theoderich IV. "Childerichus rex Francorum" with "Karolomanno maiori domus, rectori palatio nostro" confirmed donations to the monastery of Stablo and Malmedy by charter dated Jul 744[519]. In a charter dated 15 Mar [749], marked spurious in the MGH collection of Merovingian charters, "Chilperichus [=Childerichus] rex Francorum" confirmed privileges granted earlier by "sobrinus noster Dagobertus quondam rex" [Dagobert III] to the bishop of Le Mans[520]. The Royal Frankish Annals record that he was deposed [22 Dec 751/23 Jan 752], tonsured and sent to the monastery of Sithiu[521]. The Chronicon Sancti Medardi Suessionensis records that “Hildricus” was deposed in 750 and tonsured “in Monasterio beati Medardi Suessionensis”[522]. m ---. The name of Childerich's wife is not known. King Childerich III & his wife had one child:

a) THEODERICH. The Gesta Abbatum Fontanellensium records that "Hildericus rex, Merovingorum ex genere ortus…cuius filius…Theodericus" was placed in the monastery in 753[523]. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MEROVINGIANS.htm#ChildericIIdied675

12/12/2021 at 9:33 PM

Jason Scott Wills are you okay with making the name of NN unknown? or are there primary sources for her name?

12/12/2021 at 9:34 PM

go for it

12/12/2021 at 9:40 PM

I've removed parents and will lock relationships. Thanks for spotting Debbie.

12/12/2021 at 9:45 PM

Thanks Jason

12/13/2021 at 9:24 AM

Thanks for checking it out and confirming, Sharon.

12/13/2021 at 10:30 PM

:-)

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