Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich - Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich

Item 2: The profile lists a death of February 26, 1658 in Sandwich for Ralph Jr. The source for the date of death is one of my old versions of my text "The Two Ralph Allens of Sandwich, MA, in the 1600s". The problem is, I have never found a date for the death for Ralph Allen, Jr. I mentioned that on 2 Mar 1657/8 Ralph Jr. was cleared of charges of tumultuous carriage at a Quaker meeting, but fined 20 shillings for wearing his hat in court. This is the last mention of Ralph Allen Jr. in either the Sandwich or Plymouth Colony records. So the date of Ralph Jr.'s death on February 26, 1658 is not from me, I would like to see the source for this date!

item 3: the profile shows that Ralph Jr. was a husband of NN Allen and Esther (Swift) Bull. The second wife is correct, but the is no evidence that Ralph Jr. had another wife.

item 4: The profile lists a Esther Allen of Newport (Esther Allen), b. December 08, 1648, Newport, Newport Colony, d. March 26, 1676, Newport, Newport Colony. But the Hester of Newport who died 26:1mo:1676 was Hester (Swift) (Allen) Bull, widow of Ralph Allen, Jr., and second wife of Henry Bull [Society of Friends, Rhode Island meeting, Deaths, v. 1, 1647-1808; FHL film 0022413, item 4, p. 4]. Hester Allen daughter of Ralph Allen, Jr. is only mentioned once, in the record of her birth, but there are no other mentions of her. She is not listed in the will of her grandmother, Jane Swift, dated 12: 8mo: 1662, inventoried 25: 10mo: 1663. Ralph Jr. also had a son Ephraim, b. Mar 26 1656 in Sandwich, but like Hester he was not mentioned in Joan Swift's will. Ralph Jr. also has a son Jedediah and a daughter Experience, both mention in Joan's will. There is NO evidence that Ralph Jr. had a son Ralph. There was a Ralph Allen son of Ralph Allen, bapt. 19 Jan 1622[/3], in Thurcaston, but he married in Thurcaston Elizabeth Averye of Enderbye, spinster, last Dec 1655. He died in Thurcaston in 1699.

Let’s start with this:

Ralph Allen

There’s no Ralph (of Ralph). Therefore, perhaps disconnect altogether with added notes in profile as above?

NN Allen was set up as 1st unknown wife of Ralph, mother of John, notes in profile. So how do we best revise now?

Esther Allen can be updated - I’ve unlocked for you.

Re: the date of Ralph Jr.'s death on February 26, 1658 ...

I set it for “after that date,” but if we could put in a boundary date for when we know he’s no longer living (a between range), that would be ideal.

Richardson B. Allen Take a look at the children of Ralph & Esther Bull now, see if they can be improved further.

Jedediah Allen , Esther Allen , Experience Allen & Ephraim Allen

There is another confused Esther Allen here:

Hester ‘Esther’ Fox

I'll look at the questions:

1) The last mention of Ralph Allen, Jr., was on 2 Mar 1657/8. After 7 Jun 1659, the designation Ralph Allen Sr. almost disappears from both the Sandwich and Plymouth Colony records, except for two later entries in the 1670s. Nevertheless, a Ralph Allen was again in court 6 Oct 1659, 7 Mar 1659/60, 13 Jun 1660, 2 Oct 1660 and 5 Mar 1660/1 for refusing to take the oath of fidelity.

This may be further confirmed by the Family Bible of Jedediah Allen, published in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register [v. 25, p. 146], in which the death of Jedediah's father Ralph is listed before the death of Jedediah's grandmother Jane Swift, which is known to have occurred between the 12th of the 8th month 1662 [date of will], and the 25th of the 10th month 1663 [date of inventory].

Ralph Allen Sr. is mentioned 1 Jun 1658, 5 Jun 1658, 2 Oct 1658 and 7 Jun 1659, but only two later mentions of a Ralph Allen with the Sr. designation well after 6 Oct 1659, so it is possible that Ralph Jr. died between the last mention of Ralph Sr., 7 Jun 1659, and the first mention of a Ralph Allen without the Sr. or Jr. designation, 6 Oct 1659.

2) As I said, there is no evidence that Ralph Jr. had a son Ralph (or of Ralph Sr.). So I think that the son Ralph Allen is somehow from the records of Thurcaston, England. I already added a list of the Allens of Thurcaston (https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000078807615428&), so you might put a link in the overview, and say something like: some sources suggest that Ralph Allen Jr. was related to the Ralph Allens of Thurcaston with Crapston, Leicestershire, England, but there are no surviving records that match Ralph Jr. and the Ralph Allens of Thurcaston beyond the name.

3) I also have found no evidence that Ralph Jr. had a earlier marriage. He was in Sandwich in 1643, in the list of men age 16-60 able to bear arms in Plymouth. This means that he was at least 16 in 1643, or b. 1627 or earlier.

4) There has a lot of confusion between Esther or Hester Allen of Sandwich. Hester Allen daughter of Ralph Jr. and his wife Hester or Esther was born the 8th of December 1648. Hester Allen daughter of Ralph Jr. is only mentioned once, in the record of the birth. Ralph Jr.'s wife is referred to as either Hester or Esther. In 1884 John O. Austin pointed out the marriage the 14th of the 12th month 1664 of Esther Allen of Sandwich and Henry Bull of R.I. Austin and all authors since have suggested that this Esther was the Hester Allen born in Sandwich in 1648. However, this results in an age difference of about 38 years between Henry and Hester, and the marriage would have taken place when Hester was only about 16 years old. An alternative explanation based on the suggested death about 1659 of Ralph Jr. husband of Esther is that the marriage was between Henry Bull and Esther widow of Ralph. This would result in Henry and Esther being much closer to each other in age, and might explain why the widow Esther Allen is absent from Sandwich records after the death of her husband.

5) I'll look at the children of Ralph Jr. & Hester (Swift) Allen. His children Hester and Ephraim are only mentioned in the record of their births, and not mentioned in the will of Joan Swift; Experience Allen was mentioned in the will of Joan Swift, but her death is listed in the family Bible of Jedediah. Jedediah Allen was the only child who survived to get married. He had a number of children, and moved later to NJ. Jedediah is well documented.

6) New England Marriages Prior to 1700, p. 17, lists John Andrews (1645-) & Hester [Allen] (?1647-), m/2 John Allyn ca 1672?, m/3 Samuel Fox; b. 1672; ?Plymouth/?Norwich, CT.

7) A final note. There is evidence that John Allen, of Sandwich, who on 10 Oct 1650 married Elizabeth Bacon in Barnstable and moved to Newport, RI, was related to Ralph Jr. This is based on a bequest by Jedediah Allen of Shrewsbury, NJ, in his will dated 25 Sep 1711, to Mary Allen daughter of John Allen of Woodbridge, NJ. Mary was a granddaughter of John and Elizabeth (Bacon) Allen, and thus suggested to be a niece or cousin of Jedediah.

Later,
Richardson

Another note on the profile of Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich (Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich). The profile lists unknown (NN Allen) parents. But looking at these parents, the profile shows that NN Allen father of Ralph Jr. was a son of Richard Allen & Margaret Wyott, married in Braunton, Co. Devon, England, 24 Sep 1583. But Richard and Margaret were parents of Thomas Allen of Barnstable, MA, and Matthew Allen of Windsor, CT, and the family is well known.

The Will of Richard Allyn the elder of Branton Devon, dated 29 Nov 1647, proved 10 May 1652, mentions sons Thomas Allinge & Mathew Allinge; Mary Allinge daughter of son Thomas; 3 children of son Mathew, John, Thomas & Mary; grandchildren Mary Tamling, Elianor Tamling, Obedience Garland & Elizabeth Tamling; daughter-in-law Elizabeth wife of son Richard; grandchild John Alling son of son Richard; grandchild Margaret daughter of son Richard; John Rice of Barnstaple; Walter Cutt; son Richard Alling executor & residuary legatee [Bowyer, 108] [The New England Historic and Genealogical Register, v. 50, p. 504-505]. Notice that he had no son named Ralph mentioned in his will! [see also The New England Historic and Genealogical Register, v. 51, p. 212-214]

The issues you are raising are noteworthy and well documented. Thanks for undertaking such a daunting task.

Thanks for the support. I would like to add the possible(?) brother of Ralph Jr., John Allen of Sandwich and Barnstable, MA, and Newport, RI, but the relationship is weak at best! Both Jedediah Allen of Sandwich son of Ralph Jr. and John Allen of Newport were very active in the Society of Friends, but I have found only one record that mentions both Allens. I need to search to see if there is already a profile of John.

The profile of NN Allen father of Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich (Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich) is locked. I cannot delete his parents, Richard Allen and Margarett Wyatt, who are not the parents of NN Allen based on numerous well documented sources. I also cannot add John Allen as a son of NN Allen and brother of Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich. I have not found any existing profile for John.

Richardson unlocked.

I just set up a profile for you: John Allen

And merged a previous NN Allen into Ralph’s Mother so the notes don’t get lost: we can always move them around, but the mother profile has the comments about John on it.

Thank you so much for spotting the Richard ‘the Elder’ Allyn, of Braunton & Margaret Allyn profiles added on top of Ralph’s parents! We have improved technology now. I’m locking the NN’s to relationships, but not to other edits.

I just looked at the 8 Confirmed Matches for the profile of Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich (Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich). Unfortunately there are errors in all 8 matches. I listed the matches and the errors [in brackets] for each match below. If anyone wants to discuss the matches before I delete them, please contact me in this discussion. I will not delete the matches for about a week.
Richardson

Matches:

1) Birth name: Ralph Allin; Gender: Male; Birth: Circa 1606 [no evidence]; of Quorndon, Leics., Eng. [no evidence]; Marriage: Spouse: Patience Middleton [no]; Aug 24 1684 [no!]; Parkington, Leic., Eng. [no]

2) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620, Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Marriage: Marriage to: Esther Susannah Bull/Allen (born Swift), Feb 14 1664 [no record of marriage], Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

3) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620, Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Marriage: Marriage to: Esther Susannah Swift (Bull), Feb 14 1664 [no record of marriage], Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

4) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620, Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Marriage: Spouse: Esther Susannah Bull/Allen (born Swift) [Esther Allen-Bull, (born Swift)], Circa 1645, Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts, American Colonies; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

5) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620, Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Marriage: Spouse: Esther Susannah Bull/Allen (born Swift) [Esther Allen-Bull, (born Swift)], Circa 1645, Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts, American Colonies; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

6) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620, Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Marriage: Spouse: Esther Susannah Bull/Allen (born Swift) [Esther Allen-Bull, (born Swift)], Circa 1645, Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts, American Colonies; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

7) Birth: Between 1606 and 1620. Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom [no]; Occupation: Stonemason; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death]; Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts; Burial: 1659 [no record of burial], Old Quaker Meeting House Cemetery at Spring Hill, Sandwich, Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States

8) Ralph Allen Jr.; Gender: Male; Birth: Between 1600 and 1620 [say 1600-1624, age 16 or above in 1643]; England; Death: Feb 26 1658 [no record of death], Sandwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts, United States; Mother: Allen; Daughter [widow]: Hester Bull (born Allen) [Hester Bull (born Swift, widow of Ralph Allen Jr.]

No objection. Should we change the birth location for the Geni profile? I unlocked for you.

I want to wait for a few days before I delete the matches. I'd love to learn where the death of Ralph Jr. on Feb 26 1658 came from! I do think that the location of his birth should be changed from Thurcaston, Leicestershire, England to simply England. It is possible but not likely that he was born in the colonies.

Although the evidence is poor, it is possible that Ralph Jr. of Sandwich, John of Sandwich & Newport and Francis of Sandwich were related. So I'm going through the on-line databases for England to see if I can find a family that includes at least two of the three names of the right date of birth. No luck so far.

I plan to delete the pictures for the profiles of Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich and his mother NN Allen. Neither are appropriate for the profiles, because the first is for Thurcaston and the second is for the family of George Allen.

I de tagged them from profiles for you.

Check this one to see if it’s the correct Ralph Allen

https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000012669399266?album_type=phot...

And think about a “pretty but relevant” image: it will help draw attention to the update.

It looks good, although it is Ralph Sr. not Ralph Jr. How about this, which includes the birth of Ralph Jr.'s son Jedediah (https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000012669399266?album_type=phot...). The original is on-line from https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/284748.

I can also replace it with a lower resolution version to protect the FamilySearch file.

Rather than lower resolution, could you try a crop of the image (also) so there’s a focus on Ralph’s name? Then there’s a “close up” for the Geni image box.

I will find Ralph Sr & move the record over to him.

I added a cropped version centered on Jedediah's birth. But a small image on the profile.

I added a crop from the Ancestry.com registry - https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/d4/a4/f6/b6/5344484ad7...

That should make it clearer for anyone who wants to peer in.

Looks good.