The Lees of Shrewsbury St. Chad's

As I said - I have had the pleasure to assist MANY in finding their parent(s), family that they never known - which has been a rewarding experience for me as it usually has brung such joy and closure to those who needed it the most.

And it is a scientific fact that AUtosomal DNA does and and will never attach itself to individuals that do not share the same genertic DNA relationship(s) ...

Yeah I noticed too that many (or most) of the Lee lineages and LOV lines .. the ancestors related too in most arguments - have "lines of mixed descent" ... hummmm.

As you are aware cousin T-lo Tina Ann Cavitt ;)

T-lo Tina Ann Cavitt re: "reported for what..i was enjoying my family history"

I do not know exactly - it may have been what I said about the Lee Y-DNA projects, it may have been what I said about being harrassed and slandered by an individuals or it may have been my references to God - either way I told the truth and do not feel I violated Geni rules of engagement as I have the right to defend myself and research.

But I am sorry if that offended anyone.

or it may have been my reference to my disabilities and that I had to go because I was in pain ...

But I realize sometimes truth hurts too.

As I said before:

The only PROBMATIC issue with Richardus Lee and Elizabeth Bendy being the true parents of Col Richard Lee Colonel Richard "the Immigrant" Lee is that admission that this is the true lineage of Col Richard Lee would nullify all the Y-DNA Project and Y-DNA studies that have disclaimed many Lee of Virginia descendants -WRONGFULLY - and everyone should also note that prior to Thorndales bogus of attaching John Leyes and Jane Hancock with fake sources - it was acceptable by the Lee Society and Edmund Jennings Lee - see specifically in his book 'Lee of Virginia' that indeed Richardus Lee and Elizabeth Bendy were his parents and he WAS a decendant of the Lees of Shropshire. Regardless of the argument contrary - I have 2 copies here and EJ Lee was very much in favor of Col Richard Lee being a descendnt of the SHropshire Coton Hall Lees - and that family is well documented - contrary to the argument - and it kind of narrows it down to Richardus, as it wasn't the other bros /sons of John Lee of Coton Hall.

There are direct descendant males of the UK Lees that more than match the USA Lee decendants today - as well as the other ancestrial and descending surnames associated with our LOV lines.

Anyway - Y-DNA cannot attach itself to non-Y-DNA tested ascending generations and individuals and cannot fly magically through time and attach itself to non-tested male ancestors as others have suggested - so scientifically a Y-DNA Haplogroup cannot be assigned to any of these non-Y-DNA tested ascending ancestors either - to claim such is false and impossible,

That is not just my opinion but fact, truth and science.

Yes - I am finding as many of us are Autosomal DNA accurate and very useful in genealogy - especially with the documented Lee LOV lines that have been told they are not related to COl Richard Lee and Anne Constable. :)

There are hundreds if not thousands of us Lee cousins that can confirm this - regardless of others opinions about us.

And I am proud of all of my 'mixed-line' ancestors and cousins. I think the more the merrier. :)

Richard Lee of Coton Hall
Colonel Richard "the Immigrant" Lee

Tagging profiles:
Richard Lee of Coton Hall
Colonel Richard "the Immigrant" Lee

For the research associated to them:
https://leesofvirginia.org/Col_Richard_Lee.html

As it seems to have been removed from these profiles as it is my original research and on history timestamp my contributions and credits have been removed. The current contents shows another version of my research - rewritten without any reference to my hard work.

and DNA references:
https://leesofvirginia.org/Lee_DNA_Project_Page.html

Any complaint about self-promoting - I think it prudent to promote the research as it is relevant and I did the research. And it pertains to the topics. It only is fair and right as I cannot change that I did the work.

Thank you.

Discussion on my argument for Ricardus Lee of Coton as parent of Col Richard Lee as presented on Geni to confirm it as my contribution:

Richard Lee of Coton Hall Inconsistancies "Discussion
https://www.geni.com/discussions/193270?authenticity_token=XZoVQC5P...

Thank you,
Jacqueli Finley

Maven -
"Dear Jacqueli: The evidence that the birth record from Shrewsbury St. Chad's does NOT pertain to the Coton Hall family can be found on the very image you waved around as "proof" that it *does*.

Take a good close look at the word following the father Richard Lee's name. Does it say "Gent."? It does not. It says "Sharman". I looked it up, and it's an obsolete occupational term for a worker-in-cloth, and some definitions added the velvet-cutting detail.

So I went digging deeper into the Shrewsbury St. Chad's parish records. What I found, I posted.

I have done nothing else except tattle."

SO - in response I took the liberty of adding primary sources - and a close-up of 1617 baptismal record in question:

It clearly states: RICHARD LEE FATHER OF SON RICHARD LEE - there is no "Sharman" after his father.

Furthermore: Here are the Parish Record Transcripts
Richardus Lee; Present at baptism of Richard Lee:; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England; (source image attached)

and

Richard (Richardus) Lee listed as present (Father) at baptism of Col. Richard Lee; County Shropshire Register type Composite Register date range 1616-1638 Archive reference P253/A/1/1 Page 2 Record set Shropshire Baptisms Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers) Subcategory Parish Baptisms Collections from United Kingdom, England Note:source image attached - Primary Source:; First name(s) Richard; Last name Lee; Birth year -; Baptism year 1617; Baptism date 15 May 1617; Denomination Anglican; Place Shrewsbury, St Chad's; Father's first name(s) Richard; Mother's first name(s) -; Mother's last name -; Residence -; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England

Now after the wording "son Richard Lee" there is writing - not "Sharman" unless you are suggesting that Col Richard Lee was born with shears in hand.

Nice try.
I also added these primary and secondary sources pertaining to the situation:

https://www.geni.com/documents/followed_by/6000000001210330059

I noted that my sources and research no longer give me credit on Geni and Wikitree profiles even though I was the initial contributor, so I thought prudent to upload the documents and sources directly so all can review and make up their minds for themselves - that is the best and fairest way. IMHO,
Jacqueli

As for me - I am not a genetic specialist or DNA expert, although I learned the basics from one, I just want to help clear up the confusion and misrepresentations of what Y-DNA and Autosomal DNA can and cannot do. In my opinion one has been over-rated (Y-DNA) and one under-rated (Autosomal) so I am only trying to clarify in the simplilest "layman' terms to help things along.

I am not perfect - I make mistakes and if proven wrong make admission, adjustments, apoligies, then move on ...

I AM a genealogist though, one who loves history and wishes to preserve it for all generation - today's and tomorrow's - regardless of race, color, creed, religion, politics, or surname ...
so I fight hard for what is true and correct.

Thank you for the patience with me in advance.
Jacqueli

RE: https://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiContact.html - Maven's "Source" for Richard Lee 'Sharman" Baptismal Record -

From the 'source' site:

Contact Details
I welcome corrections to errors in any of the data for which I'm responsible and mistakes I've made in putting it together. And, of course, I welcome contributions from readers who have data to offer me.

However, much as I would enjoy doing so, I don't have the time to engage in email exchanges about users' own research. With the qualification that I don't promise to answer all (or even many) emails, if you've got a correction to provide, my email address is: melvynlockie@btinternet.com
Return to top of page

URL of this page: http://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiContact.html
Copyright notice:
All pages at http://www.melocki.org.uk
are Copyright Mel Lockie 2011.
All rights reserved.
For a detailed copyright policy see: Conditions of Use.

[Last updated 16 Oct 2015 - 14:16 by Mel Lockie]

So PROBABLY WHY Maven made the statement:

"Dear Jacqueli: The evidence that the birth record from Shrewsbury St. Chad's does NOT pertain to the Coton Hall family can be found on the very image you waved around as "proof" that it *does*.

Take a good close look at the word following the father Richard Lee's name. Does it say "Gent."? It does not. It says "Sharman". I looked it up, and it's an obsolete occupational term for a worker-in-cloth, and some definitions added the velvet-cutting detail.

So I went digging deeper into the Shrewsbury St. Chad's parish records. What I found, I posted.

I have done nothing else except tattle.

I think you also need to go yell at Morgan Fourman and Alan Nicholls.

Maven B. Helms PRO
8/13/2021 at 8:19 PM
Report
Re: Elizabeth Bendy, widow, nee Brooke: https://www.morganfourman.com/articles/elizabeth-bendy/

Re: additional Bendy-Lee connections: https://www.morganfourman.com/articles/william-bendy/
and https://www.morganfourman.com/articles/lancelot-lee/

Please note that these articles *are* sourced, and the sources appear to be primary documentation."
https://www.geni.com/discussions/235584?msg=1495054&page=1

Unless a "source' is thoroughly vetted and original primary or secondary publishing with primary citations is not a reliable source BTW. Just going over and vetting properly so I am correct in confirming not a source to dispell a UK Parish record as was stated by Maven - thank you.

https://ukbaptisms.org/baptisms.htm

"Baptism and Birth Records in the UK
Baptism Records
A baptism record is a any type of record or certificate that states the date and place an individual was baptised into a church. These records are available from 1538 onwards, and are recorded in Parish Registers. They are an invaluable resource for researching your family tree because the census and official records of birth, marriage and death do not go back further than 1837.
Baptism Records before 1813
Until 1813, the amount of information given is very basic. This included:
Child's name
Father's name
Church/Parish where baptised
Date
It was very uncommon for the mother to be mentioned, as this was considered to be unimportant..."

Note by Jacqueli:
It was NOT customary or Parish practise to list parent 'trade' or status on Baptismal Records.

Erica Howton

In regards to the documents (nothing to do with Richard Lee and Margaret or a Marie:

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000177794309239

Parish Transcripts from UK Parish Record Microfilm:

Description:
England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription; First name(s) Ric.; Last name Lee; Name note -; Marriage year 1599; Marriage date 21 Oct 1599; Marriage place Alveley; Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth; Spouse's last name Bendy; County Shropshire; Country England; Record set England Marriages 1538-1973; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Marriages; Repository: England, United Kingdom.

Shropshire marriages Transcription; First name(s) Ric; Last name Lee; Marriage year 1599; Marriage date 21 Oct 1599; Marriage place Alveley; Denomination Anglican; Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth; Spouse's last name Bendy; County Shropshire; Register date range 1561-1721; Archive reference P10/A/1/1; Page 37; Register type Composite; Record set Shropshire Marriages; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Marriages; Collections from United Kingdom, England; Repository: DC Thomson Family History.

Regarding Probate of Last Will and Testament of Richard (Richardus Lee) of Coton Hall - to Clarify - not the record you posted, my apologies:

https://www.geni.com/discussions/235763

Regarding Will of Richardus Lee (Richard Lee of Coton) Proven:

STRATFORD HALL: THE GREAT HOUSE OF THE LEES, Pg. 524:

JOHN LEE of Coton Hall (aged circa 59 in 1588/9) mar. Joyce, only dau. of John Romney of
Lulsley, co. Worcester, bur. Aiveley, 4 Dec. 1609

Thomas William Edward Gilbert RICHARD

Mentioned in Chancery suit 1610 — j Elizabeth Bendy

as having life interest in farm at | married at Aiveley apd.
Aiveley apd. Bapt. at Aiveley 21 Oct. 1599.

6 Oct. 1563. Ment <! in Wills of
his father 1605 and brother Gil-
bert 1621. (Left Aiveley to live
at Stratford Langthorne, Essex. )

Note: .John Lee of Cotton or Coton Hall and Joyce Romney his wife had eight sons of whom five are men-
tioned in this transcription. Of Gilbert Lee the record states he was of Tolleshunt, Darcv, Co. Essex;

that his (Richardus) will was dated April 12. 1621. the year of his marriage to Elizabeth ; that lie

was a leather merchant trading with Virginia, and that his ship fought the Spanish Armada.

It should be apparent and accepted that in Col Richard Lee's sworn statement stating his identity as from Stratford Langethorne, Essex and that in Richard Lee of Coton's place of residence at the time of his death was also Stratford Langethorne, Essex that Col Richard Lee IS THE SON OF Richard Lee of Coton. With two LEGAL probated documented PROVEN Will's that DO ESTABLISH a LEGAL PARENTAL Father to Son RELATIONSHIP through the sworn statement of TITLE IDENTITY the acceptance of Richardus Lee of Coton and Stratford Langethorne Essex as the FATHER of Richard Lee of Virginia and Stratford Langthorne, Essex should be unquestionable. I rest my case on the matter.

And IF there was a bill of sale or land record of Col Richard Lee purchasing prior to his death the estate - why would he do so when it is documented and historically published that "He returned to his childhood home" prior to his death.

Baptismal transcript:
Source(s): Baptismal Record(s):

Note: listing Richard (Richardus) as father and present:

Richardus Lee; Present at baptism of Richard Lee:; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England; (source image attached)

Richard (Richardus) Lee listed as present (Father) at baptism of Col. Richard Lee; County Shropshire Register type Composite Register date range 1616-1638 Archive reference P253/A/1/1 Page 2 Record set Shropshire Baptisms Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers) Subcategory Parish Baptisms Collections from United Kingdom, England Note:source image attached - Primary Source:; First name(s) Richard; Last name Lee; Birth year -; Baptism year 1617; Baptism date 15 May 1617; Denomination Anglican; Place Shrewsbury, St Chad's; Father's first name(s) Richard; Mother's first name(s) -; Mother's last name -; Residence -; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England

https://archive.org/stream/stratfordhallthe00rich/stratfordhallthe0

So no need to add unrelated wives ...

It IS Richard Lee of Coton and Elizabeth Bendy only as Col Richard Lee.

See the discussion: https://www.geni.com/discussions/235763

As there are plenty of valid sources there.

I am NOT perfect, as no one is, just trying to do best I can in circumstances.

Thank you.

T-lo Tina Ann Cavitt

Yes that is a cool thing - we also match for Richard Henry Lee son of William ... through my DAR Patriot John Lee, Esq and your RHLee - Jesse Jewel Lee

;)

Erica Howton consider comparissions of typed log on Maven's source https://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/StChadShrewsburyPart1.html

and the descrencies - see if you can detect.:)

see: https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000177793699265&amp;...
and
https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000177793766111&amp;...

Erica Howton it's okay - we all make mistakes in hatse :)

I think I was not clear enough, I’m sorry. No need to repost records, I see them in profiles.

You stated:
This discussion is “ The Lees of Shrewsbury St. Chad's.”

I’m saying that the Richard Lee who was buried 1621 in Shrewsbury left a widow named Margaret. He had a son Richard in Shrewsbury who was a cordwainer, and who apparently married a woman named Marie, and they had children baptized in Shrewsbury. So this Richard Lee born 1617 could not have been the same person as William Lee the immigrant who married Anne Constable and came to Virginia."

Based on Maven's SHrewsbury St Chad's source? That source is baseless IMO

The 1617 Richard Lee record is for Richard Lee the Immigrant and father Richard Lee of Coton.

As I have uploaded more sources and documentation that proves this than those that argue against - a reasonable person would think.

And the only reason I got onto this discussion was because of Maven's misinformation and unfounded argument as it is a complete invalid unsourced assertion as the source is not a source and full of descrepancies. I am surprize you have not taken note as to scrutinize and vet what she presented:

"Entirely too much faith has been placed in the slender evidence of a single christening report from this parish, regarding connections to the Coton Hall Lees and the Famous American Lees.

Unfortunately the original record thoroughly destroys the former connection, and subsequent records indicate *very* strongly against the latter.

The Richard Lee who was christened at Shrewsbury St. Chad's on May 15, 1617, was the son of Richard Lee, "Sharman" (shear-man, a cloth-cutter, possibly a worker in figured napped fabrics, e.g. figured velvets).

Richard Lee the shear-man died in Shrewsbury and was buried Jan 14, 1621 (New Style). (Richard Lee, Gent., of Coton Hall, was recorded as having been buried *at* Coton Hall, and the remains later removed to Alveley.)

Richard Lee the son (a "corviser" or cordwainer = high-quality shoemaker) appears to have married someone named Mary or Marie, and to have produced a clutch of little Lees between 1642 and 1653:

642, July 7. Elizabeth, d. of Richard & Marie Lea ... bap.
1642/43, Feb. 2. Andrewe, s. of Richard & Mary Lea ... bap.
1645, Dec. 4. Richard, s. of Richard & Mary Lea ... bap.
1647, Sep. 8. Marie, d. of Richard Lea, corviser, & Marie ... bap.
1647, Dec. 25. Marie, d. of Richard Lea, corviser ... bur. [oh dear]
1653, Aug. 28. Daniell, s. of Richard Lea, corviser, & Marie ... bap.
1661, May 8. John Boodell, who died att Rich. Leas house ... bur. [had his own house?]
1662, July 26. Richard Lea, corviser, of Barker Street ... bur.
1675, May 8. Daniel, s. of Mary Lea, widd. ... bur.
1676/77, Jan. 1. Mary Lea, widd: ... bur.

In essence, this appears to have been the same class of error, with less excuse, as assuming that John Lyes and Jane Hancock of Worcester, England, were the parents of Col. Richard Lee of Virginia. (*That* one at least had some flimsy associations to lean on, and no contravening evidence.)

As to whether Col. Richard Lee was the son of Richard Lee, Gent., of Coton Hall, and Elizabeth Bendy, the jury is still out. He would *probably* have to have been born between 1610-1615 (which isn't out of line with the known facts about him) - unfortunately the Alveley parish records are spotty and none survive from the Coton Hall chapel itself."

She bases her arguements on assumptive opinion and a lot of probablies - and a source that does not match up to St. Chad's registry ... or transcriptions.

Assumptions regarding any information surrounding this subject are moot. They are just designed I am sure to deflect.

I suggest it best to thorough vet all of my documentation, sources, citations on this subject prior to rushing to assumptions or assertions as well, as looking for errors may provide a diversion from the validity of multitude historical publishings and citations that clearly substaniate my findings. As all of these do pass Genealogical Standards way beyond Find-a-grave, Wikipedia, Wikitree, and private website stating they have original documentation that do not (not even a link to an archive source) which these are continuously accepted here as sources which they are not - maybe references at best.

Thank you.

I reposted my post - as I sometimes have typos from my disability - sorry...

"""I do feel a need to repost records and document my findings as it was apparent to me that all references and credit to my research and sources were deleted from the profiles.

"I’m saying that the Richard Lee who was buried 1621 in Shrewsbury left a widow named Margaret. He had a son Richard in Shrewsbury who was a cordwainer, and who apparently married a woman named Marie, and they had children baptized in Shrewsbury. So this Richard Lee born 1617 could not have been the same person as William Lee the immigrant who married Anne Constable and came to Virginia."

I agree as I am not saying that either.

And William Lee the Immigrant is someone I do not recognize.

As Richard Lee the Immigrant whom married Anne Constable, who was the father of William Lee and progenator of the Lee of Virginia lines and Son of Richard Lee of Coton and Elizabeth Bendy - I have not waivered from my stance and research.

I gave many well documented primary and secondary sources to confirm."""

Thank you.

Erica Howton

As far as your little tree - these people have nothing to do with my research or Richard Lee of Coton, Richard Lee, The Immigrant or LOV - they are ficticional IMO - the ONLY reference for them are https://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/StChadShrewsburyPart1.html so I feel as if you are just wasting your time on baseless claims ...

Maven's 'source' DOES NOT match ST CHad's Parish records Shrewsbury - in which
I 'reposted' the supporting microfilm documents to do the comparision to make it easy for you to see the descrepancies - plus it is an unvalid made up source tmade to look like a valid repository...

ie.:

.1617] St. Chad's. 3
1617, May 15. Richard, s. of Richard Lee, sharman ... c.
" May 15. Roger, s. of John Nettelles, Taner ... c.
" May 18. Elizabeth, d. of Richard Merie, sharman ... c.
" May 22. Mr. Richard Mackwood, of Betton ... b.
" May 23. Martha, d. of Griffeth Probart ... b.
" June 5. Margert, d. of David Peerse, marser ... c.
" June 9. Thomas, s. of Thomas Floyd, day labourer ... c.
" June 10. Jonathen, s. of John Cooke, dyer ... c.
" June 13. Sara, d. of Richard Owen, baker ... c.
" June 18. John ap Robart, huckstarar in Mardall ... b.
" July 6. John, s. of Thomas Gwynit, Taylor ... c.
" July 8. Thomas Myllard & Elizabeth Price ... m.
" July 10. Winifred, w. of George Ball ... b.
" July 17. Mystris Redle, w. of [blank] Redle ... b.
" July 19. Thomas Barnet, masonn ... b.
" July 22. Richard, s. of Isaake Scott ... c.
" July 23. Ketheren, d. of Richard ffarines ... b.
" July 24. George, s. of Rendall Knotsford, sylkewever ... c.
" July 27. George, s. of Mr. Green, skrifner ... c.
" July 27. Rowlland, s. of John Owen, glover ... c.
" July 27. Anna, d. of Roger Hennes, Taylor ... c.
" Aug. 10. Elizabeth, d. of Thomas Fox, sharman ... c.
" Aug. 13. Ussala, d. of Roger Soord ... c.
" Aug. 15. Gane, w. of John Daves, of Franwell ... b.
" Aug. 15. Thomas Weste & Jone Smyth ... m.
" Aug. 24. Frances, s. of Thomas Medlecot, sharman ... c.
" Aug. 28. John Vickers, baker, of Mardall ... b.
" Sep. 7. Elner, d. of Andrew Gryffes ... c.
" Sep. 18. Elizabeth, d, of Mr. Sanford, of the Yeill ... c.
Thomas, s. of Mr. Thomas Wicksted, draper ... c.
Edward, s. of Hue Gittones, day labourer ... c.
" Sep. 18. Mary, d. of Roger Amlar, baker ... c.
Mary, d. of John Brown [?], taylor ... c.
John Brown, taylor ... b.
" Sep. 28. Thomas Dawsonn & Elizabeth Boulloke ... m.
" Sep. 28. Judeth, d. of Mr. William Waring ... c.
" Sep. 28. Mary, d. of Evan Price ... c.
" Oct. 1. William Warter & Mary Farmer ... m.

DOES NOT MATCH UK Parish Transcripts or microfilm.

Besides the "Obvious": from Maven's 'source'

RE: https://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiContact.html - Maven's "Source" for Richard Lee 'Sharman" Baptismal Record -

From the 'source' site:

Contact Details
I welcome corrections to errors in any of the data for which I'm responsible and mistakes I've made in putting it together. And, of course, I welcome contributions from readers who have data to offer me.

However, much as I would enjoy doing so, I don't have the time to engage in email exchanges about users' own research. With the qualification that I don't promise to answer all (or even many) emails, if you've got a correction to provide, my email address is: melvynlockie@btinternet.com
Return to top of page

URL of this page: http://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiContact.html
Copyright notice:
All pages at http://www.melocki.org.uk
are Copyright Mel Lockie 2011.
All rights reserved.
For a detailed copyright policy see: Conditions of Use.

[Last updated 16 Oct 2015 - 14:16 by Mel Lockie]

So PROBABLY WHY Maven made the statement: "Please note that these articles *are* sourced, and the sources appear to be primary documentation."

ALways best to do one's own UK Parish records search from a credible repository ...

Plus - Baptismal records of that time did not state parental status.

This is WHY I have the need to repost to re-enforce truths as discussions just go around in circles most times:

https://ukbaptisms.org/baptisms.htm

"Baptism and Birth Records in the UK
Baptism Records
A baptism record is a any type of record or certificate that states the date and place an individual was baptised into a church. These records are available from 1538 onwards, and are recorded in Parish Registers. They are an invaluable resource for researching your family tree because the census and official records of birth, marriage and death do not go back further than 1837.
Baptism Records before 1813
Until 1813, the amount of information given is very basic. This included:
Child's name
Father's name
Church/Parish where baptised
Date
It was very uncommon for the mother to be mentioned, as this was considered to be unimportant..."

Note by Jacqueli:
It was NOT customary or Parish practise to list parent 'trade' or status on Baptismal Records.

AND ... Parish Records are LEGAL records, written in Latin, so when writing is illegable that is where the transcript validate what the Parish Record (or any legal document) actually states as this is done by licenced proffessional for that purpose as in all legal documentation are when transcribed and recorded.

No Sharman on transcrition.

And when Richard was born they were not living at Coton Hall.

That is also in the sources and documentation.

So in all fairness one must scurtinize Maven's one source if one is going to scrutinize my multiple sources - I think that reasonable.

I also think that it is reseaonable to give credit and reference to the research.

It also reasonable to make the connection as a valid legal connection from the proven Wills and Probate records for both Richard Lee of Coton and Col Richard Lee, The Immigrant - contrary to Maven's statement that

Erica Howton did not mean to hurt your feelings ever ... sorry.

I found typos in my post - so reposted - OCD :)

I meant they do not belong as Maven's source is not valid. The people you made the tree for have nothing to do with LOV's.

Sometime somewhere else you can share those thoughts if you want and if I can I will check it out for you.

Erica Howton regarding:Here’s an image document (not transcript) for the baptism of Richard Lee at St Chad’s on 15 May 1617.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000177828766899

The reading of it is from a fellow at Wikitree who commented:

https://www.wikitree.com/photo/png/Lee-318-3

this Richard Lee (the father) is a sharman (shearman); this same Richard Lee is buried in the same church (St Chad) in Shrewsbury on 14th Jan 1620/1 (see burial entry that states Richard Lee, sharman.) There is also an inventory of goods for this Richard Lee in which it appears that he has a wife called Margaret. (copy from site of Living Finley below http://www.leesofvirginia.org/Col_Richard_Lee.html See 'Richard Lee probate Record' at bottom of page.) The site this copy is from mentions a will; but only a letter of administration and the inventory exist, suggesting this particular Richard Lee died intestate.

——

What is your own transcription?

First- the wikitree reference was my research that they took my name off of as well and the user pointing out SHARMAN uses the same exact source as Maven ...

My transcript is for that very same St. Chad's Baptism:

Source(s): Baptismal Record(s):

Note: listing Richard (Richardus) as father and present:

Richardus Lee; Present at baptism of Richard Lee:; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England; (source image attached)

Richard (Richardus) Lee listed as present (Father) at baptism of Col. Richard Lee; County Shropshire Register type Composite Register date range 1616-1638 Archive reference P253/A/1/1 Page 2 Record set Shropshire Baptisms Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers) Subcategory Parish Baptisms Collections from United Kingdom, England Note:source image attached - Primary Source:; First name(s) Richard; Last name Lee; Birth year -; Baptism year 1617; Baptism date 15 May 1617; Denomination Anglican; Place Shrewsbury, St Chad's; Father's first name(s) Richard; Mother's first name(s) -; Mother's last name -; Residence -; County Shropshire; Register type Composite; Register date range 1616-1638; Archive reference P253/A/1/1; Page 2; Record set Shropshire Baptisms; Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Subcategory Parish Baptisms; Collections from United Kingdom, England

Screenshot from archive: https://media.geni.com/p13/d8/bb/26/4c/5344485f51b6e28a/uk_parish_b...

that verifies the transcript(s)(same)

Why I suggest reading and vetting all I uploaded regarding this subject.

Thank you.