John (Punch) Bunch - Cleanup of the Bunch / Punch line

I see a tree that has John Punch as originating in the Kingdom of Ndongo. Is this valid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Ndongo

The changes are on familysearch.org so no problem with Geni except the information is wrong. It's out of date for John Bunch I. I was thought maybe he came from Scotland. But research showed he was the son of a slave, John Punch. The number of John Bunch is LBFH-82N My tree number is LTTF-JPP but I don't think you can get living links. The main thing I want is to correct geni as I've already corrected the ones on familysearch.org. I'd attach to an article on John Punch but can't here. But go to John Punch and read the sources which prove he's the father of John Bunch. The wives of both men are unknown. I hope you made the change on geni and not on familysearch which I've now corrected. Note: Scotland is an error. the place is Virginia. Thanks so much, Katherine

John Bunch l is here on FamilySearch

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/vitals/LBFH-82N

And here on John Bunch, I

This article would be the most useful link

“Documenting President Barack Obama’s Maternal African American Ancestry” Anastasia Harman, Ancestry.com Lead Family Historian, Natalie D. Cottrill, MA, Paul C. Reed, FASG, and Joseph Shumway, AG. With the comment: Documents the life of John Punch and many of his descendants including John Bunch I, John Bunch II, John Bunch III.

But would have to re-find it in Ancestry.com - the link doesn’t work.

We do have Y - DNA upload on Geni.

I’ve locked fields and relationships.

Notes:

“John Bunch l had three sons, John II, Henry and Paul.”

Should we separate all the other children currently attached?

See if you can get this source where the research was done: Ihttps://www.ancestrycdn.com/legacy/my-content/offer/us/obama_bunch/... Thanks so much for cleaning this up. The history is fascinating. I know from my own white ancestry with 1% Bantu that goes back to Virginia where the Angolan slaves came in. My ancestors are Bunches, back to John Bunch I who clearly came from John Punch as his grandson was shown in court records to be of mixed blood. Katherine van Wormer

Yay, that worked. I uploaded here for Geni members:

https://media.geni.com/p13/ff/9a/4b/0a/5344484ed9baa842/main_articl...

Isn’t it amazing to be such a part of history?

I’ll try to continue down your tree for more cleanup on Geni, mostly concerned at the moment on getting the other Bunches off John Bunch l.

We have a mixup on Geni of John Bunch l’s, and that’s where the Scots Origins came in.

This link doesn’t seem entirely correct but it’s a start for separating.

https://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&a...

The Scots origin story is bunk also.

Page 12 - 13

https://media.geni.com/p13/ff/9a/4b/0a/5344484ed9baa842/main_articl...

Debunking Former Claims

Decades ago, early attempts to trace the Bunch family origins led descendants to jump to wildly speculative claims that the progenitor of the family was a man who emigrated from Scotland to Gloucester County, Virginia, as a headright30 of Gervase Dodson, and then settled in York County.

There is no factual foundation for any claim that John (or any Bunch immigrant) hailed from Scotland.31 Further, the Gloucester County, Virginia, immigrant named John Bunch died early (see Appendix B), so he was not the man of this name who lived in York or New Kent counties.
The origin of this story appears to be the first published genealogical account of the Bunch family of Virginia. This genealogy’s researcher and author, the well-intentioned and fairly careful Richard Haney Bunch—admittedly no expert in the origins of Colonial Virginia immigrants—was “informed that the family was first known in Flanders and migrated to Scotland during [the] time of religious uprising and were known to have lived there for 400 years.” Richard H. Bunch was also told by his father that “there were two different families of Bunches who came from England to America, one settling in Virginia and the other in Carolina.”32

Note that the family tradition specified that the immigrant was from England (not Scotland). This family tradition story was preceded by general information about the surname, without any factual connection to the Virginia immigrant, but people remembered the first story and dropped the second. In spite of the fact that the sources cited here have been readily available for decades, these false claims have passed, unquestioned, into other published accounts and spread across the Internet.

And seeing Appendix B on page 28 - 29:

John Bunch, an apparently white immigrant, whose headright was claimed by Gervase Dodson and settled in Gloucester County, Virginia, died in Gloucester County in 1657.79 The records do not indicate any estate was left to pass to a relict with dower rights (dower rights could not be extinguished without a widow’s express consent), nor were any children bound out or occur in later generations.

Every indication is that this white immigrant named John Bunch died single, leaving no descendants.

I’m detaching these two women seen as wives of John Bunch, I

Mary Bunch & Anne Punch

If there is evidence to support them, we can fix it. But so far I see his wife was unknown - Mary Bunch

This is a note for myself. I connect to this tree (not blood) through Alvin Ray Gentry so should check the links.

The wife named Mary was mentioned in the court record where her marriage to him was a contested matter based on race at which Councilman John Lightfoot resided, per the record in the media section of said Councilman.

Let’s be very careful about “which” John Bunch had a wife Mary; she’s been causing confusion in the Bunch trees.

Yes, because if it is the John Bunch alive and in Va in the time of 1705, upon looking at the hearing petitioned by Sarah Slayden (not Mary) I see she was in a hearing in 1705 with her spouse John Bunch and it talks about ethnicity determinations for the children, since free status was determined by the mother's race at the time, which since Sarah was white, I presume, then the child would be a free person of color. https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000082340632309?album_type=phot...

https://www.ancestrycdn.com/legacy/my-content/offer/us/obama_bunch/...

In regard to Pres Obama's 8th grandfather, the John Bunch md Sarah Slayden, on p 11 of above linked Legacy Research state : "the quandary it caused the court, the following month the General Court of Virginia issued a decree that defined the term “mulatto” in Virginia as any person who had a black parent,grandparent, or great-grandparent (one-eighth black)..27 This legal definition would stand for two more centuries; it was the direct result of President Obama’s ancestor attempting to receive the same legal benefit offered to white people." The decade by decade tug of war in the courts over who was legally black and the attempts to re-slave free people of color kept being a problem for many.

That's a fascinating history and meticulous research that was done thanks to Obama's presidency. My ancestry goes down to John Punch III as does Obama's and then to David Bunch and David Bunch and a woman named Bunch who married a Singletary. They ended up in Louisiana as slave owners. Thanks so much for straightening out the history. The previous GENI research was put up at familysearch.org and was messing it up over there with the Scotland claim. It's important as people are following John Punch, who is now famous.

I am very interested in the Bunch/Punch story since some males with the Bunch last name show up in my direct male line Y-DNA. My CLARK cousins with whom I am linked back to Militia Capt Christopher Clark 1678-1754 of New Kent and later Louisa counties Virginia, ( 9 generations back from me) show a 97.5% chance of that link at 9 generations on my Family Tree Y-DNA test using the 67 marker level. ( Not very many people besides me have used the 111 marker level yet.)
HOWEVER I also link up at 97% at the 9 generations ago level ( 67 marker) with one living person named BUNCH. And at a lesser percentage level to other people currently named BUNCH.
The problem will be sorting out which Bunch or Punch was whom...

Alexander Clark It seems very location driven, and yes, there are other Bunch lines, and notably a big Bunce family out of Connecticut - which is unlikely to be related to your Virginia Clark’s, so that’s already a help. Just take it slow & easy, we are fortunate to have the Y DNA to examine this Bunch line.

It would be interesting to see which Bunch or Punch families lived around New Kent County Virginia and maybe Lousia County during the 1700-1750 time period.
There was a Brooks family in that area at the same time, and some of the Brooks line are really Clarks via Y-DNA. The same with a line of Wallace's. I was recently asked to join a Bunch DNA group. I need to dig up that e-mail.
One of my Y-DNA cousins on the 111 marker level has his tree back to somebody named named Henry Clark Bunch ( 1775-1820) and his father Zachariah Bunch born 1751. Both from Virginia and both died in Clark County Kentucky, where my direct line ancestors had moved.
And it gets even weirder,,,,,Henry "Clark" Bunch 1775-1820 is also listed as my 7th cousin four times removed, And second cousin four times removed's husband's second cousin twice removed,,,through two rather odd paths. Via the Calloways, Brownings, Warrens and Walkers, then Adams and Clark, and through an in-law route via the Calloways and Penns, Triggs and then to the Clarks....
SO... This branch of the Bunch family was in the same area as my Clark direct ancestors and somehow or another one line was given a shot of Clark DNA. Maybe that explains why Henry had Clark as his middle name.

Geni thinks Zachariah Bunch descends from John Bunch, III/ “Jr.”

You need to check all the Links between, though. I had posted my connection to the Bunch tree and found an error to correct - right Mary with wrong Bunch father (there were 2 with almost identical stats). Put me a step closer to the Obama tree so I checked up & down & sideways in disbelief.

I take all of this with a huge snow-shovel full of salt.
Particularly when political or historical persons are inserted into trees. When you get a TV show involved,,,, all sorts of giant leaps take place.

So yes I have some DNA cousins who now have the last name Bunch. And yes there were some Bunch folks living near my Clark ancestors.

But I have know idea how much work my Bunch DNA cousins put into their trees. Did they do it the old way or just found themselves with all sorts of cool computer database stuff?

You can answer that for yourself as I did. I checked every single link between me & James Bunch lll & made sure there’s a source in the profile.

Debbie Gambrell Link to profiles?

Hi All,

I have Bunch mysterious DNA hit on Gedmatch I apparently looking at a 3rd -6th generation connections DNA wise but I have no clue how I connect to this family. The Level on all these kits it 4.9 so I being generous with generations so if any errors. I contacted women and discussed these results neither one us could figure out how we connect. On Facebook I did find connections to surname Gibson and they share some this this DNA although I have Gibson Cousins in West Virginia I have yet to find connections. That goodness lady put names of oldest known as people. It is my belief all are passed here. I could be wrong but it was my assumption from our talk. My first Question does any these Bunch connect to this guy if so how? If not known does anyone know these names so I know what lines to focus on? And is anyone of these people on Geni? So I can try to make DNA connections. I at brick wall on this been trying to work on it for few years now. There also could be Native American connections possible stories I can’t be sure what true here been trying to research these people any help be appreciated.

T853798 A Mary Floyd Bunch 10.6 16.9 4.9 N/A 2014-03-31 Migration - F2 - F

T680409 A James Hughes Bunch 10.5 16.9 4.9 N/A 2014-03-31 Migration - F2 - F

T002765 A Elizabeth Bunch Smiddy 10.5 16.9 4.9 N/A 2014-03-31 Migration - F2 - F

T569211 A Laura Bunch Dean 10.6 17.0 4.9 N/A 2014-11-23 Migration - F2 - F

T673301 A Margaret Bunch Bishop 10.6 17.0 4.9 N/A 2014-11-23 Migration - F2 - F

Billie

Hi,
I found this on Family search it did not look like same family was there 2 John Bunch who immigrated to America in same time period and ended up in Virginia

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/382285?availability=Fam...

Billie

Hi again,
I think I found Zechariah Bunch Will not sure it him. But will let you all evaluate before I list on profile. Look on page 17 on computer Page 18 on book it self. Hope this helps.

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~ancestorhunt1000/genealogy/Ebooks2Ke...

Billie

Erica, just disregard my previous post. I worked on my connection in my Ancestry tree pretty much all day yesterday because I've been communicating with a Bunch-descendant cousin I'm trying to find how she and my son have common ancestors 5 generations back. Anyway, I 'think' I got my Ancestry tree correct. The one that was listed as John Bruce Bunch isn't showing that way on Geni and it turns out he wasn't married to Temperance. I do think some of the wife connections on Geni are incorrect, based on info I saw yesterday. At this point, my mind is a blur about what all I read using Wiki, Geni, Ancestry trees, etc. yesterday - a lot of conflicting info and little or no documentation on the wives in some cases.

I 'think' I got my Ancestry tree as well-sorted and documented as I was able to. If you want to see how that ended up, my tree is public and it's Gambrell-Ingram Combined Tree - but I was only working on the direct Bunch line a cousin shares with the Obama ancestry, not any other of the Bunch lines. So what I worked on ran from John Punch down to John Bunch II and then split to go down the line of both his son John Bunch III and his daughter Agnes Bunch Blevins, as I have cousins down both those lines. I got a crash course in Bunch research and it left my head swimming! lol

I didn't make any changes on Geni, as these aren't my direct lines. I was just using Geni as a tool while working on my Ancestry connections. But I would say that the connections for wives named Mary Spear, Temperance Bates, and one with the surname Barnard be checked closely for documentation because what documentation I saw on them yesterday seemed to put them with different spouses. I saw a lot on Wiki stating this or that person wasn't the spouse of the one normally connected to, etc.

I had closed all those tabs out from my research last night, so I don't have anything open to refer back to. It would be like starting over for me to attempt to at this point. I'll leave all that for active Bunch family researchers to sort out and fix as needed on Geni. What I can say for sure is that more sites than not seemed to have misinformation without documentation, just copying from other sites. The most helpful information was from Find-a-Grave and Wiki.

What I will do, Erica, is go through my Ancestry connections and post any links for documented information in the appropriate profiles on Geni, as that can help others with their research.