Rabbi Mordechai Yollis of Cracow - Rabbi Mordechai Yollis of Cracow

Started by Haim Wartski,Hachoen on Saturday, April 11, 2020
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4/11/2020 at 12:12 AM

hello all,
In trying to continue the family tree I found a lot of information in "elef margaliot", because it concerns many people, I decided Before I go back many generations, to consult others, because the information in "elef margaliot"(Which, to my knowledge, is considered a very reliable source, and I have seen many profiles at geni opened based on this source) has according to "elef margaliot

r' Mordechai Yollis father was
rabbi yechiel(section 807)
R' izhak of viyan(872)
son of
Rabbi Dr. Elia Chalfan who was Dayan in Vienna(He had 3 sons: Rabbi Chaim Menachem, Rabbi Yechiel, Rabbi Eliezer(
rabbi elia was the son of

rabbi d"r abba mari chalfan(his wife was rivka the dauther of rabbi d"r yehoshua Hasel
son of:Rabbi Elia (Menachem) chalfan from Venice(section:874+876)his wife was:fiorit, dauther of rabbi kalonimus(son of rabbi david)-section:876
son of:
rabbi abba mari chalfan(from france)section :877his wife was the dauther of hamaharik
his profile:

Rabbi Joseph ben Solomon Colon, MaHaRIK
son of
Now there is an issue that needs to be resolved: According to Jacob Leib Shapiro(section 877), he was the son of Rabbi Shmuel Menachem Dalmadigo (if the information is correct, I have more informationgo back few generations )

I'd love to hear your thoughts

Randy Schoenberg
I would be very happy if you help me to make order in the general tree, so it will be accurate

4/11/2020 at 12:31 AM

I answered you yesterday on a lot of this. There is a lot of confusion in this part of the tree and I think it was more of a wish than based on any evidence for much of it. As I showed you, the Delmedigo / Chalfan connection is a mistake that Wachstein explained already in 1936. I have added real sources (tombstone inscriptions, etc) for the ones I could find.

Elef Margaliot is like a tree you find on Ancestry ot MyHeritage. it is a valiant attempt, very good for its time, but it is not definitive. You need to find the sources for the information in Elef Margaliot and consult those in order to make any progress.

4/11/2020 at 12:43 AM

For example, read the discussion of the sources for the connection between Chalfan and Kolonymos on the profile of Rachel Chalfan. it is not enough to merely cite the unsourced tree in Elef Margoliot to answer these problems.

There is some dispute among the various authorities on the relationship between Rabbi Eliyahu Chalfon (c.1490- c. 1560 Venice) and Rabbi Kolonymos (Calo) b. David (1496-1540) of the famous Kalonymos family. Wachstein (and various sources relying on him) says Eliyahu is the son-in-law of Kalonymos, relying on this reference to a manuscript described in Krafft-Deutsch, Die handschriftlichen hebräischen Werke der K.K. Hofbibliothek zu Wien, page 130 (1847) (note that Krafft-Deutsch says "Schwager" = brother-in-law, not "Schwiegersohn" = son-in-law).

מודה אני קלונימוס בכ דוד בע לבית קלונימוס איך אני נותן במתנה זה ספר למהרר אליהו חלפן חתני יצו מרצון נפשי ולראיה כתבתי וחתמתי שמי פה ויניזיאה בחדש נובמבר רפו

He says that Eliyahu Chalfon is his son-in-law. (חתני)

Jacobi, Vol. I, p. 176 17.1m says that Wachstein made a mistake, and confused Rabbi Eliyahu's wife Fioret with her daughter-in-law Rachel, the wife of Rabbi Dr. Abba Mari Chalfon (d. 1586 Prague), so he thinks Fioret is not the daughter of Kalo b. David, but that Rachel is. I haven't yet found any other reference to this Rachel, who Jacobi says died in Prague.

The references in Jacobi are Kaufmann "Chalfan" p. 106 and OG II 162.

The Kaufman page reference makes no sense because the Chalfan article is pages 500-508, as set forth also in Jacobi's bibliography. On p. 501, Kaufmann says that Rabbi Eliyahu is the son-in-law of RR. Kalonymos b. David. See https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/b2/6a/c5/02/5344484b70...

OG II is N.J. Hakohen, Otzar haGedolim (Hebr. Vol. I/IX) (Haifa 1967). Volume II is http://www.hebrewbooks.org/22628

4/11/2020 at 12:51 AM

Randy Schoenberg
many thanks randy
You asked me for more information yesterday, I decided to open the discussion for others to express their views on the information, and may have information that could verify or disprove the information in elef margaliot
About the connection between the chalfan and demedigo families,I pointed out that I am not sure that there is a connection.
As you know, people from other branches have opened profiles and connected to the chalfan family.
I want to connect my branch, but want to verify the information written in elef margaliot
rabbi trabato colon he is my great-grandfather from another branch

4/11/2020 at 1:01 AM

Randy Schoenberg
I thank you very much.
I read contradictory things here. Unfortunately, I have no information to decide who is right

Private User
4/11/2020 at 12:06 PM

There is an interesting footnote here: Rabbi Yehuda Delmedigo: "Casta (: idem, "Elim," p. 29), the only daughter of Joseph of Constantinople and Rachel, married her relative Elijah, whose genealogy, on his father's side, is as follows: The above-mentioned Abba ha-Zaḳen [son of the first Delmedigo in Crete, Yehuda] (I.) had three sons: Elijah, Moses, and Elkanah—all Talmudists—who, together with other rabbis, defended—"with flaming swords"—their countryman Moses Capsali against the charges of Joseph Colon (Grätz, "Gesch." viii. 253)." So this suggests Joseph Colon was a polemical antagonist to the Delmedigo family. Perhaps this lends credence to the conclusion that the Colon and Delmedigo families are not related as described by Elef Margoliot since they appear to have been ideological antagonists (nothing is proved by this anecdote, but it is quite interesting in view of the present discussion). According to the GENI tree this Elkhana mentioned above is the grandfather of Shmuel Menachem Delmedigo so it would seem impossible, if Joseph Colon is roughly a contemporary of Elkhana, that he could be the son of the grandson of Eklhana. Instead there would have to be another Shmuel Menachem who is from the generation of Abba ben Yehuda Delmedigo or before. Since there is no evidence of this yet, I would think this is further support for discounting the Elef Margoliot position.

4/11/2020 at 12:39 PM

Private User

By elef margaliot:
rabbi abba mari chalfa(from france)was the so o fRabbi Shmuel Menachem Delmadigo
rabbi d"r shmuel(His son was born after his father passed away so he got his name + the name Menachem)
Rabbi Elkana
Rabbi Dr. Old abba
Rabbi Yehuda Dalmadigo
Notice that the information is not only found in elef margaliot but also in the book ancient families in Israel
משפחות עתיקות בישראל(page:377)
I'm not coming to establish a fact, I'm just copying what's written in the books. I have no idea what the truth is, so I opened the discussion

4/11/2020 at 12:57 PM

In Ancient Families in Israel book (page 375) Write that Rabbi Eliyahu Chalfan's father was Rabbi Dr. Aba Mary Dalmadigo chalfan and Rabbi Shmuel Menachem Dalmadigo was his father.
There is more detail there than in the book elef margaliot

4/11/2020 at 12:59 PM

Private User

Those who read Hebrew are welcome to read and express their opinions

4/12/2020 at 7:55 AM

Private User
As far as I can see, the Delmadigo family tree as it is in geni needs repairs, so it's hard for me to answer the question
i Say this: Since I found the information in several different sources, must have to look at the branch and see if the information in it is correct.
As I mentioned yesterday: I just copied the information, I don't claim it to be true or not

Private User
4/12/2020 at 7:56 AM

Okay I see that I misconstrued your written genealogy from post one and I think you make a valid point. In view of your clarification, one question if I may: if Abba Mari Chalfa is the son of Shmuel Menakhem Delmedigo, would that make Abba Mari Chalfa also the great grandfather of Joseph Solomon Delmedigo, di Candia (as the JE states (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5065-delmedigo)?
It would be possible that Shmuel Menakhem had a son named Abba, as written in JE,but who is not the same Abba as Abba Mari Chalfan.

Private User
4/12/2020 at 8:04 AM

Why does Wakstein say it is not possible for Abba Mari Chalfan to be the son of Shmuel Menakhem Delmedigo?

4/12/2020 at 8:16 AM

Private User

I didn't write it

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