Curators owning d’Estouteville/Stuteville profiles

Started by Private User on Friday, August 21, 2020

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Private User

8/21/2020 at 12:15 PM

Curators owning d’Estouteville/Stuteville profiles

I’ve been psyching myself up for a major long term task, although in hind sight I’m not sure why! It seemed at one time to be an important nobel family of Normandy with ties to the French crown who were somewhat overlooked.

I’ve research the entire family of d’Estouteville from Robert ler before 1060 to approx. 1530, 16-20 generations later. The family has both French and English branches, 7 major branches in addition to the origins, the senior branch, and two alliances, and likely 3-4 more in the English line. A total of approx. 667 profiles are involved, to be created, edited, moved, connected, etc. at the same time I will merge duplicates not marked private after notifying the managers of my intent.

I wanted to let you all know, I think I can do this without changing curators but you will see in and out access as needed, so you may get multiple notifications. The good news is that I’ve done this work in MyHeritage so I can use Smart Copy to speed things up. If you see something you have comment on at any time let me know. I have no idea how long this will take and the bad news is my wife lost her job in May due to the COVID-19 pandemic so I’ve got a daily “honey-do” list that requires dedicated time. While I’m confident that I’m all inclusive I have not yet written the overview for each profile, that will be done as I proceed.

Also, if you are a d’Estouteville curator and would like me to discuss in advance possible changes to your profiles let me know, I will try to remember to check this list for each existing profile I encounter.

I have coats of arms for all branches drawn and your key to my being done with a particular profile will be the addition of the blazon in the profile photo location.

Following this note will be a second discussion laying out my research methodology as while there may be reference to these people there is generally less than what we might like to see in primary sources.

A couple of teasers...
...This family lost 7 male members spanning three generations in a single day at the battle of Agincourt on 25 October 1415 (which confusingly took place outside the village of Azincourt).
...there are 18-20 Roberts during this generation span, the numbering used varies and is basically unsupported in documentation. I will use Cawley who I believe stops at VI, III through VI being in England.
...the English branch, who dropped the d’ and became Stuteville, we’re lords of Cottingham. But which one? It turns out there are two Cottinghams in England and learning this helps explain the early references to imprisonment at Cottingham in county Northampton and lords of Cottingham in East Riding of Yorkshire. Neither was shown occupied by the d’Estoutevilles for the Domesday book
... According to legend, the manor house at the castle of Cottingham in Yorkshire was destroyed by its owner, in 1541, on account of a proposed visit by Henry VIII; the owner, fearing the monarch's intentions towards his wife, sought to prevent the King's visit by ordering the arson of his own home!

Update 7/21: in fine tuning the connection between the French and English lines I stumbled today on a new resource which I bought today of entirely primary sourcing that will change things, even in the 1st and 2nd generations. I’m thinking now that I will start down the French line first on Geni while I work through the new information I’m getting about Aug 2.

Private User

8/21/2020 at 12:16 PM

Research methodology for the d’Estouteville family research

I used Charles Cawley and MEDLANDS first as his information is “usually” based on primary sources. However, for this family he states “This family has been studied by Gabriel de la Morandière. He appears to clarify adequately the relationship between the Estouteville family in Normandy and the Stuteville family in England. However, his account of the descent of the various branches of the English Stuteville family is confused and contradictory... As will be seen below, it has not yet been possible to reconstruct this family completely on the basis of the primary sources which have so far been consulted during the preparation of the present document.” He then proceeds to use Morandière as a source, highly unusual for Cawley to use secondary sourcing.

Primary sourcing does not always include all siblings or children, so I followed with these secondary sources...
1. Gabriel de la Morandière,
1. Racines et Historie by Etienne Pattou. Mr. Pattou used the following for his work:
2. Cartulaires de Montmartre et de Saint-Merry de Paris (Sorbonne)
3. Héraldique & Généalogie, http://www.heralogic.eu/txt_bs1866_evmon.html : Armorial
4. des Evêques de Montpellier - par M. A. Fourtier - 1866,
5. Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (F. A. Aubert de La Chesnaye-Desbois, éd. 1775, Héraldique & Généalogie),
6. Contributions multiples et détaillées de Michel de Camp (à propos de la Grande-Maîtrise des Arbalétriers de France, & l’Héraldique des Prévôts de Paris et, plus généralement, de toute la Maison d’Estouteville)
2. ‪The Conqueror and His Companions, Volume 2, ‬James Robinson Planché
3. Family trees on Genanet, among others unlisted, for cross-checking dates and titles
1. Alain FOULLON
2. Henri PICHOT
3. Hélène PAREY
4. Guy HERVELEU
5. Guillaume de WAILLY
6. Patrice LIONNET
7. Francesco Maria CICOGNA MOZZONI
4. House of Estouteville, www.wappenwiki.org for coats of arms
5. Clay, Charles Travis, and William Farrer, eds. Early Yorkshire Charters. 1952 ed. Vol. 9: The Stuteville Fee. New York: Cambridge UP, 2013. Print. Record Ser.

Note: item 2.4 under Pattou Dictionnaire de la Noblesse is considered in France to be of great historical value and as such is archived at The Bibliothèque nationale de France Catalogue Général in digital version that provides for side by side English translation, and should be considered of high confidence for a secondary source. I will be following this reference as I input data to Geni.

Note: item 4, I generally, as a matter of low confidence, do not use other online genealogical trees since much of what is included has been copied and pasted so often, without citation, that it’s accuracy and origin are highly questionable. There are multiple trees for this family online that purport to be complete but which lack any sourcing whatsoever that I have ignored. There are however on Genanet several trees of French Geneaology by French researchers that I find highly useful. Many if not most rely on Roglo, which is a French version of a world tree managed by magicians (sic curators), which provide documented sources thereby increasing their reliability, even though they sometimes disagree amongst themselves.

Note: item 6 I own but have only just acquired. I will use it when I get to the English lines to double check my work as it identifies the Geneaology of the Stutevilles parallel with a complete list of Yorkshire (Cottingham) charters following the land and money, that is to say primary sources.

Bibliography

De La Chesnaye Des Bois, Aubert, and Jacques Badier. Dictionary of the Nobility: Containing the Genealogies, the History and the Chronology of the Noble Families of France. Vol. 7, A Paris, 1863)

De La Morandière, Gabriel. History of the House of Estouteville in Normandy. A Paris, 1903

de La Roque de La Lontière, Gilles-André. Histoire généalogique de la maison de Harcourt, A Paris, 1664

Cawley, Charles. “NORMANDY ARQUES, AUMÂLE, CAUX, ROUEN, EU.” Medieval Lands, 10 Oct. 2019, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/

Pattou, Etienne. “Estouteville.” Racines Et Histoire, http:www.racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN
1. Cartulaires de Montmartre et de Saint-Merry de Paris (Sorbonne)
2. Héraldique & Généalogie, http://www.heralogic.eu/txt_bs1866_evmon.html : Armorial
3. des Evêques de Montpellier - par M. A. Fourtier - 1866,
4. Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (F. A. Aubert de La Chesnaye-Desbois, éd. 1775, Héraldique & Généalogie),
5. Contributions multiples et détaillées de Michel de Camp (à propos de la Grande-Maîtrise des Arbalétriers de France, & l’Héraldique des Prévôts de Paris et, plus généralement, de toute la Maison d’Estouteville)

“Base De Données Généalogique.” Roglo, roglo.eu/rollout

“THE GENEALOGICAL ROUND - from ESTOUTTEVILLE & TUTTAVILLA .” Gnalogie LAISN, 3 Aug. 2002, herve.laine-bucaille.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm

Sanders, I. J. ENGLISH BARONIES A STUDY OF THEIR ORIGIN AND DESCENT 1086-1132. London: Oxford University Press, 1960

Burke, Bernard. A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the British Empire. Vol. 2, J. White, Horace's Head, Fleet-Street, 1808

Overton, Charles. The History of Cottingham. J.W. Leng, 1861

Planché, James Robinson. ‪The Conqueror and His Companions, Volume 2, Somerset Herald, London, Tinsley Brothers, 1874‬

Clay, Charles Travis, and William Farrer, eds. Early Yorkshire Charters. 1952 ed. Vol. 9: The Stuteville Fee. New York: Cambridge UP, 2013. Print. Record Ser.

Family Trees on Geneanet for the purpose of cross-checking dates and places:
“Family Tree of Alain FOULLON.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/foullon
“Family Tree of Henri PICHOT.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/hpichot
“Family Tree of Hélène PAREY.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/hparey
“Family Tree of Guy HERVELEU.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/gherveleu
“Family Tree of Guillaume de WAILLY.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/wailly
“Family Tree of Louis BRUN.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/zardoz
“Family Tree owner : Patrice LIONNET.” Geneanet, https://en.geneanet.org/profil/cyprienpl

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Curators owning d’Estouteville/Stuteville profiles

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