Cicely (Firmin) Lowe - Origins? family? Sources?

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, November 1, 2020
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11/1/2020 at 6:19 PM

Her maiden name is seen as Firmin but her parents are seen as Augustine Whall, Gent and Elizabeth Whall

Her husband is seen as Gyles Low, of Brancepeth and her child as Thomas Lowe, of Ipswich

Clarity appreciated.

Private User
11/3/2020 at 11:07 AM

Where did you see the name Firmin? The church records say
she is the daughter of Augustine Whall. She was baptized in May 1582.

11/3/2020 at 12:14 PM

It was in the profile - I don’t know its origins (hence, this discussion).

Private User
11/4/2020 at 9:44 AM

I think Firmin is wrong. That is propably another Cicely.

Private User
11/4/2020 at 9:55 AM

The church records doesn't say when she was born only when she was baptized.

11/4/2020 at 1:28 PM

So she was baptized “On or before that date.”

Do we have documentation for her marriage to Gyles Low (Lowe, Loe) and him as parent of Thomas Lowe, of Ipswich?

Private User
11/4/2020 at 11:06 PM

On that date.

11/12/2022 at 1:25 PM

Evidence that Thomas Low’s mother was Cicely Firmin is presented here:

  • “Descendants of Thomas Low, the Immigrant to Ipswich, Massachusetts, for Three Generations;.” Edward E. Steele Volume Name 174 (2020) Page 225-226. The New England Historical and Genealogical Register. Boston, MA: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1847-. (Online database: < AmericanAncestors.org >, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2001-2018.) (document attached)

Cicely Low

What do we think?

11/12/2022 at 1:53 PM

Wikitree discusses origins of Thomas Lowe, of Ipswich

Disputed Origins

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Low-790 Profile last modified 6 Oct 2020

There are multiple theories about his origins:

  • 1. Son of Giles Low and Cicely Firmin : Mr. Vincent B. Redstone, researcher in England for William Gilman Low, was unable to find a record of this couple in Boxford.[1]However, a similar couple can be located nearby. In 1866 John Ward Dean wrote a memoir of Rev Giles Firmin (1614-1697) published in "New England Historical and Genealogical Register".[2] In 1871 he included "Additional Facts" in "NEHGR"[3]; He describes communications from a Mr. Somerby of extracts of parish registers of All Saints, Sudbury. These were published, with his permission, in "Essex Institute Historical Collections".[4] An extract of the will of Margret Firmin of St Peters parish Sudbury is given on p.37, "Kinswoman Cicely wife of Giles Lowe. Kinsman Henry Maynard...". Many researchers have assumed this meant Cecily was a Firmin. However, records of Lamarsh/Essex (not too far from Sudbury/Suffolk) include the marriage of a Giles Lowe with a Cecily Maynard[5] (and possibly related to Margaret Firmin's kinsman Henry Maynard) as well as the birth of a son Thomas Lowe[6] on 19 Nov 1598. This Thomas, possibly with a Firmin family connection, would be the wrong age to be the Thomas that came to Ipswich, Mass.
  • 2. Son of Giles Low and Sysely Wall
    • 1. This Thomas is not proven to be the immigrant to New England -- A Thomas Low, son of Giles, was baptized 11 Jul 1605, Brancepeth, Durham, England.[7] Branchpeth and Boxford are about 250 miles apart making it unusual that this is the same Thomas m. to Margaret with appropriately aged children in the area of Boxford.
  • 3. Son of Capt. John Lowe, Captain of the Ambrose and vice admiral of the fleet that brought over Governor Winthrop's colony in 1630.[8] From p.13, "Thomas (1-i.) Low of Chebacco, Ipswich, now Essex, was, with little doubt, son of Captain John Low, master of the ship Ambrose and vice-admiral of the fleet that brought over Governor Winthrop's colony in 1630. The cane and Bible said to have belonged to Captain John Low have been handed down in the families of the Essex Lows and are now in the possession of Daniel W. Low of Essex, Mass., a descendant." However, William Gilman Low[9] traced the family roots and descendants and found that Thomas, son of John Lowe, Captain of the Ambrose, was born in 1620. John had a brother, Thomas, born in 1594. Neither would be the right age to be the Thomas Low who came to Ipswich. According to his deposition made in 1660, he was born about 1605.[10][11]

Places of origin include:

  • Southampton, Isle of Wight, England[12] See Walter Low and descendants. This profile is not yet connected to Thomas. However, the editors of NEHGR surmise "This is probably the ancestor of Thomas Lowe, the pioneer of Chebacco, now Essex, but then part of Ipswich, MA, and possibly of John Lowe and other New England lines."
  • Colchester, Essex, England[13] From p12, "Among the Reverend Rogers' party was one Thomas Low, a young man of thirty-one who had been born somewhere near Colchester in Essex County. ( footnote 1) From footnote 1 on p357, "The early genealogy of the Low family is extracted from William Gilman Low, 'A Genealogical Quest and Family Notes' (Privately Printed: 2nd edition, 1928)." A search of this document does not reveal a reference to "Colchester".
  • Brancepeth, Durham, England (son of Gyles Low and Syseley Wall and christened 11 Jul 1605)[7]
11/12/2022 at 2:05 PM

Hatte Blejer on hiatus - you curate. I believe Private User also finds this Family of interest.

Brought to my attention by fellow curator Private User

11/12/2022 at 2:13 PM

Is there support for Abigail Low as daughter? Emily Kent Marget any thoughts?

11/12/2022 at 3:17 PM

Building out the different Giles Lowes on offer as Thomas of Ipswich’ father.

Gyles Low, of Brancepeth & Cecily Lowe

Giles Low, of Lamarsh & Cicely Low

11/12/2022 at 7:45 PM

Unfortunately Ipswich VR does not have a birth record for any Low (or Lowe) children until "Thomas, s. Thomas, Apr. 14, 1661." Also, the Lowe family was in Chebacco Parish (now Essex). I believe there may have been a separate set of records for that parish that are likely lost. (Much like the Linebrook Parish between Topsfield, Rowley and Boxford.)

As for Abigail Low I do not see a marriage or death record in Ipswich VR. If both parties were of Chebacco and were married in Chebacco,

11/12/2022 at 7:48 PM

continuing https://www.geni.com/discussions/220990?msg=1597586 - If both parties were of Chebacco and were married in Chebacco, the record would not likely be in Ipswich VR.

11/12/2022 at 11:08 PM

His known children were born in England before emigration in 1636.

He and his family came to New England with the Rogers' party. The Rogers party sailed from Gravesend, England, on June 1, 1636, and arrived in Massachusetts Bay (probably Charlestown) November 17, 1636. The ship was probably the Rebecca. Thomas Low and his family probably arrived at Ipswich in 1637.

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