Where's Jacob from

Hello....

I and a very prominent DNA pioneer researcher have been researching the Souders line for almost twenty years. Our lineage is from John Souder, born 1726, and the brother of your Jacob, born 1734. They were the sons of Hans Jacob, born abt. 1678 in Switzerland, and Ann Groff, born 1705.

We have, over the years, accumulated very solid evidence and proofs of their criteria, and try very diligently to only post highly accurate data.

As far as the Jacob of 1734 goes, we have not concentrated on him too much. A lot of very inaccurate data has been speculated about him, such as a connection to a line in Virginia which is very questionable. A great deal of data, especially posted on Geni, has been vastly inaccurate about John, my ancestor. We have John's line all the way to the present, and actually back to the 1300's.

This Jacob of 1734 for us is a bit lost, so your information is very interesting.

Do you have any other basics on Jacob, such as date of death and location?

Many thanks, if so.

Robert Souders

This is just a theory. Jacob Sowder acquire the land in Frederick Maryland 1785.He sold the property book WR7, page 148 list wife as Ann. This is 4 months prior to records stating Ann Prilliman married Jacob. Common law was strongly biased in favor of the husband/father. It was still a fact that a married woman had no financial rights independent of her husband. It wasn't uncommon to co-habitat prior to marriage. The property's location states tract called Mackey's choice. Dr Tracey's land and index places that tract at the crossroads of route 26 and route 194.Actual description places it to the west of 194 and above Woodsboro between Creagerstown and Detour. Jacob Souders born 1765 bought property in 1809 property Mackey's luck. Dr. Tracey's description places that tract on route 26 which leading from Monocacy to Annapolis. Mackey's luck was on a larger tract called Mackey's delight which included Mount Pleasant. Mackey's choice and Mackey's delight tracts were beside each other that spanned less then 3 miles apart. Jacob b. 1765 and brother Benjamin b. 1756 are buried at Israel creek meeting house cemetery just off route 194. Both are grand sons to Jacob and Ann Groff Souders

There is speculation that participant #N88308 has ties to Jacob b. 1734. Tracing names in census back to possible names that connect to the participant show a possible line to Anthony born 1790. This still would need confirmed and checked.

The connection in the DNA group in Frederick Md. adds to the possibility.

Frederick Maryland land records

Jacob Souder in Frederick Md. sold his tract Slick on Macky's Choice for 400 pounds which was shared with a partner Daniel Pittinger. Dated Feb 17,1787.
Anthony Souder in Creagerstown Md. book WR 5, page 337, 1785. It mentions he's from Loudon Co Virginia. Why buy a house in Creagerstown?
Christian Stouder and John Stouder. Christian owned a portion of Paw paw Bottom. It also was just off 194 near Woodsboro Md.Book 7,page 457 Bought the property from
Christian Binkley
1787- In the book, Records of Marriages and Burials in the Monacacy Church in Frederick County, Maryland etc., by Frederick Sheely Weiser, lists the marriage of Adam Sauder and Elizabeth Pinckele, on 25 September 1787, Christian Pinckele was a witness ( Binkley)

All above resided in the same location as Jacob and Benjamin Souders Group 2 DNA project, between 1785 and the late 90's. Could be a coincidence or could be a clue. Was Jacob and Benjamin familiar with this area due to early travels prior to 1809?

Library of Virginia LVA records
Jacob Sowder land grant dated July 27 .1787- for 10 Shillings
Jacob Sowder land grant dated Nov 2 1888- pounds 5 shillings
Jacob Sowder from John Lykin ( Lakin) land grant dated July 3,1816- 1 pound 6 shillings and 8 pence. It appears John was a minor.

A pound is equivalent to 10 shillings. Jacob in Frederick had the means to purchased all these tracts in Virginia.

John...

Thank you for getting back...

Yes, several years ago, we followed the threads of this Jacob (born 1734) who is the brother of my direct ancestor, John Souder, son of Jacob Sauder an original immigrant to PA, and the scion of Soudersburg, a town just East of Lancaster...

We found, I believe, almost all of the same information on the speculation that you have just related that another Jacob who ended up connected to the Prillaman family in VA, but concluded that they are likely not the same Jacob. There has been quite a difference of opinion in the DNA circles (mostly above my pay grade) about the VA Jacob. As you found, there is a lot of information. My line did indeed end up in MD, and several of them are buried as you found in Israel's Creek.

Bottom line, for us anyway, is that the VA Jacob of the land deeds is likely not my direct ancestor anyway, and we concentrated instead on John's line. Again, we do know that John has a brother Jacob born 1734, but our proofs seem to end there beyond a supposition date.

As I mentioned before, we are very solid on the Original Jacob's lineage through John.

I have seen, especially on Geni, some very inaccurate traces to them. I have attempted to clarify what we believe to be the facts here, but it doesn't seem to take permanent hold. I have also tried to keep FamilySearch in order, but several people keep changing the outline it seems just to square up their own version of things.

If you are interested, the FamilySearch number for what we term "Original Immigrant Jacob" is LH1Z-NK1.

This is also frustrating in that people keep altering the facts here too, often with little care or regard...but you can see where John and his brother Jacob (born 1734) come from.

Please stay in touch!

Robert Souders

John...

Also, Benjamin (b. 1756) and Jacob W. Souder (b. 1765) who are buried at Israel's Creek Cemetery are the sons of John (my direct ancestor) and the nephews of Jacob (b. 1734).

Again, all we know for certain in our research is that this Jacob died after 1756.

We don't have the proof that he is the VA Jacob.

Here is what my professional genealogist noted when we researched Jacob:

Jacob was not explicitly mentioned in his father Jacob's Will; he andhis sister Ann are referred to as John's siblings, to whom he was to pay their share when he received Jacob's 233 acres of land on Pequea Creek. Jacob died after 1758 when he received a cash payment for his share of his father's inheritance from his brother John. John, Ann, and Jacob were the children of Jacob's second wife, Ann Graff.

Jacob was probably alive in 1758, when his older brother John took formal possession of their father's Pequea Creek land, since he is not shown as deceased in the land entry made at that time. The entry does, however, indicate that John had previously made arrangements for the money payment to his siblings. This means that Jacob may have already been out of the area by 1758. There are many researchers who, without documentation, believe that Jacob moved to Maryland and then MontgomeryCounty, Virginia. However, there are several other Jacob's who have not yet been researched who might have been John's brother - some nearby and others more distant.

The Will of a Jacob Souder who died in Montgomery County, Virginia, is included FOR REFERENCE ONLY. There is, at present, no documentationwhatever to indicate that the Jacob of Montgomery County was John's sibling. In fact, the naming patterns he uses seem to more likely implyhe is of the Souder group where the given name Adam is prevelent. Notethat there are multiple "Jacob Souders" in Lancaster and surrounding Pennsylvania counties at this time period. Research would need to be done to verify if one of these, or the Jacob in Virginia, was the son of Jacob Souter who died about 1737 in Lancaster Co., Pa.

Thanks again.

Robert Souders

John....

I have done some rereading of the wills and land transactions after 15 years of all the Jacobs in Frederick County, MD.

One thing that is interesting that hasn't been considered...the land transaction in 1787 is witnessed by a Jacob W. Souder. That is indeed the brother of Benjamin, son of John, and grandson of the Original Immigrant Jacob back in Lancaster....that is very strong evidence that the transaction was to Jacob, the brother of John.

I will keep looking at this with 15 year newer consideration...certainly, we have strong evidence that this Jacob was around longer than our last known date of 1758 from a transaction in Lancaster.

Perhaps more to come...

John....

Still another new fact with the 1787 transaction...

It is witnessed, as I mentioned, by Jacob W. Souder. We know his wife's name was Elizabeth from many sources...

The document says that the Jacob in question was deferred to by his named wife of Ann...a bit more evidence that this is probably the 1734 Jacob...however, still no connection to VA at this point, but the wife names do sync up.

OK, John, one last try here for perhaps gaining more insights...

Going back down the rabbit hole with this again...

I dug out old files, and tried to look at them with a new 15 year gap POV.

I think it is the same conclusion...

The Jacob that shows up in VA married to Anna Prilliman does not seem to have any provable links that I can find to our family...

I think, as happened years ago, that there are a lot of coincidences.

One fact that does seem different...I do see from MD deeds that our John's brother Jacob did indeed transact a land exchange in MD Feb. 1787 and it is witnessed by Jacob W. Souder, one of John's sons (and brother of Benjamin.) It also shows that this Jacob's wife's name was Ann...at the end of the deed showing that she did not object to the deed, semi-property that women were at the time. (We definitely know that Jacob W.'s wife is named Elizabeth.)

This is several years later than the last date for Jacob I have been using based on a deed from PA with his brother John which was
"Aft. 1758," when we lost track of him.

The connection of Jacob to VA has no smoking gun I can find. The coincidences are many. The VA Jacob was born 1734 (same year.) Same wife name (Ann or Anna.) Same (almost) father name: Jacob John from PA, from the only thing I could find in Family Search...but here things get shaky...Family Search shows this father as dying at 107 years old, and his wife dying at 106. Not very likely Casts a great deal of doubt on the entire connections...but that is only from Family Search...

Again, if you have anything you might come across that can assist with this, it would be great if you can share it!

Looking forward to hearing back if you have replies to all of this...

Robert Souders

John....

Just one more thing...

The Family Search father (Jacob John) for the Jacob who married Ann Prilliman is identified not only as living to 107, (unlikely) but having different birth, death and locations than our Original Immigrant Jacob who is verified.

But this is from Family Search, again not a solid source of information.

Robert Souders

The Jacob I'm referring lived 85 years and passed in 1819. I think there's a possibility through the tree of Joe Shelor Sowder. His tree traces back to :
Jacob Sowder
Birth: 1734
Pennsylvania, USA
Death: 1819
Montgomery County
Virginia, USA
To my understanding the unknown participant in Group two has ties to this Jacob. I am not positive that the line of Joe is correct without verifying with a family member or researching it further. I base it on knowing the given name that traces back. Obviously that tree could be wrong and possibly someone else.
Logic or common since tells me that Jacob and Benjamin in group two more in likely had visited Frederick Maryland prior to purchasing property in 1809. They may have been there several times through out the 1780's. In 1787 when Jacob (1) sold the tract Slick both Jacob and Benjamin were of the ages 22 and 31. Seem reasonable to think this could be a clue. D.N.A. is only a good tool if the line wasn't altered by a non Souders. This means the one participant in group six line may have been altered. Really no way of knowing.
Today, most people think of a family as being made up of parents and their
children. In colonial times, however, families for the most part include grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, and stepchildren. They needed all the resources of the family to survive and be successful.

This avenue needs allot more research and documentation. It might never be found. Could be a dead end as you said. I can share anything I find if you like?

John

Yes...

I do think you are referring to the Jacob who was married to Ann Prilliman in VA...there is a lot of documentation about that.

Again, to recap, our line descends from Original Immigrant Jacob, born 1678 in Switzerland, his son John, born 1726, (and John's brother, Jacob, born 1734.)

Two of John's sons, Benjamin and Jacob, born 1756 and 1765 respectively, are the brothers buried in MD in Israel's Creek Cemetery. John's brother Jacob does appear to be involved in some land deeds with his nephews in MD, as we researched some years ago.

But there is no definitive connection in our research that the Jacob of VA, married to Ann Prilliman (other than a coincidental birth year) are the same.

There has been a great deal more of forcing a square peg into a round hole than actual proof on that...

Again, if you should ever find something or possess something now that nails this down, kindly inform me...that would be great...

At this juncture, it seems like the same dry well we explored years ago from available documentation....

Robert Souders

John...

Sort of like a dog with a bone, I dug back in on VA Jacob (born 1734) a bit more from our records of over 15 years ago.

Again, a great many co-incidences with the MD land deeds, but also a lot of things that don't quite sync. Same conclusions as earlier, but perhaps you have some data that would help with this...

I discovered an old WFT posting for the VA Jacob, and while it did say he was born in 1734, it listed his birthplace as Montgomery County VA. (As it was the same as his death location, more than likely an error to start with.)

But there are a couple of interesting things...first, it showed him as married three times, but closer examination shows that the first two "marriages" are to the same woman named Elizabeth, and both "marriages" producing the same named children...so, really, one "marriage" here. It listed the marriage date to Elizabeth as 1755. The third "marriage" (really the second) showed the date of June 17, 1788 to Ann Prillaman.

This Jacob is on the MD land deeds of Feb. 17, 1787 and Aug. 7, 1787 with his wife named Ann deferring to him. A year earlier than this other supposed marriage date.
Both deeds are witnessed by Jacob W. Souder, the brother of Benjamin, both sons of John from Lancaster who is a Jacob's brother. John's brother Jacob is also (or the same) born in 1734.

A lot of dates based on these marriage dates don't quite work out for the movements in the area. Do you know details of either Elizabeth or Ann Prillaman's birth, death, or marriage dates? Any documents of such?

We do have the will of the VA Jacob, born 1734, but with no proof, detailing about 18 children....any census records in VA for him? Tax records?

Any solid, not coincidental, details on his two wives might help clarify things to some degree.

Robert Souders

John...

As often happens, it may be like pulling a thread on a sweater...

Despite all the confusion for many years, rereading the land deeds from Maryland and finding something new on Family Search, there might at last be a great deal of corroborating evidence that the the Jacob in VA could very well indeed be my distant relative who was John's brother.  (Along with the ton of valid research connected to him with the Prillaman family marriage and so on.)

I have discovered that according to FS, The Jacob in Frederick MD transacted several land deeds that you and I have copies of, and they interacted with Benjamin and Jacob W., who were two of John's sons and the ones buried in MD.  They are definitely our guys.

A first deed with this Jacob (from PA) was in 1785, and his wife Elizabeth deferred to him.  FS says that this Jacob's first wife was Elizabeth Story (1738-1785) and that would work out.

The second and third transactions in Feb. 1787 and Aug. 1787 were witnessed by Jacob W. Souder, John's son and Benjamin's brother.  Both deeds say that this Jacob's wife Ann deferred to him. 

According to FS, that Jacob married Ann Prillaman in 1788.  Yes, it is a year earlier than the marriage, but could it be a date error? What do you find for the marriage date?

A lot of things fall into place with some subsequent land deeds in VA as you listed with this scenario also.

This VA Jacob on FS shows a father named John Jacob (1712-1819) but this appears to be nothing but a collection of wild errors.  He would have died at 107 years old, and his shown wife would have died at 106.  Not very likely, especially in the 1800's.Throw this parentage out, and it all makes a lot of sense. 

The VA Jacob could very well be the son of my Original Immigrant Jacob, the brother of John, the DAR patriot, and well documented ancestor of many Souders through the southern United States.

On top of all of this, a Jacob Souder, born 1734, also appears on an old copy I have of the DAR Patriot List.  (As does John, my lline's direct ancestor.) This Jacob is documented as serving in VA in 1778.

Any other information you might have to further these details is appreciated.

Robert Souders

My gg grandfather was Daniel Wm Souders born in Va. 1803. He can be found along with Daniel Souders in the wash. Co. Land records directly under him. Both buying property from Wm Price ex. To John Hays decease estate.

My family has strong ties to the Kuhn Family in Frederick md. This connection established is based on where both families lived which created family ties and marriages. Family legend and info passed down is Jacob Kuhn b. 1805 and D. William Souders were childhood friends. Even today we have a Kuhn Souders reunion.

Micheal Kuhn and Jacob Souders Conowago Church 1777
Jacob Souders and George Henry Kuhn deed 1809
Daniel buys farm in Sharpsburg 1826 F J Hays
D. William buys town lot Sharpsburg 1827 F J Hays
My GG grandfather manslaughter trial Jacob Kuhn Koontz b 1805 testified on his behave.
Jeremiah Kuhn and David Souders deeds Sharpsburg Md 1853/55
David B Souders g grandfather married Margaret Kuhn 1896. Daniel’s daughter. Daniel is Jacob’s son
Great uncle Noah Souders married Mary Etta Kuhn 1895. Wm Henry’s Daughter. Wm Henry is Jacob’s son

It’s my belief both Benjamin and Jacob had travel to Frederick. Jacob more in likely spent time in Va. with Family placing Daniel there with him early 1800’s. The Kuhn connection confirms ties to Jacob Souders born 1765.

When you put the land deed location and family known info together it’s more then a coincidence in my opinion. I need to read what you found about FS. This is great news.

John....

Yes...

It seems that we are connecting a lot of coincidental things...but, as we found long ago and confirmed again, the VA Jacob in question still does not have any corroborating evidence that he is the son of my Original Immigrant Jacob back in PA.

We may never get that...

What do you show for the marriage date of VA Jacob and Ann Prillaman? I am curious in that the date I have is 1788, a year AFTER the two MD land transactions stating that his wife was named Ann.

Also, VA Jacob seems to have always spelled his last name as SOWTER, and not SOUDER which all the PA records show and my line from John evolves into with the current SOUDERS.

Do you show the VA Jacob last name transforming at an identifiable time?

Robert Souders

I understand we might not ever get collaborated evidence. Figuring out and understanding how my line connects to Va. is a personal goal. My brick wall.l have one deed that actually has two version of spelling in Frederick Md. as Souder and Stouder. Can’t remember which Jacob it is in reference too. What makes it important is that spelling Stouder connects to Christian and John Stouder who own land on the west side of Route 194.During this time in history most transcribers spoke English and spelled the name how they heard it.That tract was called Pawpaw bottom. Those deeds were dated through the 1790’s. There’s coincidental ties by deeds and location to Christian Brinkly to Christian Stouder. Adam Souders married Elizabeth Brinkley. I have deeds for my gg grandfather with spellings of Souter and Souder which reference the same tract called Turkey foot.it’s the last piece of property he owned and is buried in a unmarked grave on it. There’s military records in Virginia 1775 for a Jacob with the spelling Souder. But knowing if it’s him with certainty would be a challenge. Just opposite of Rohrersville and Sharpsburg in Frederick County is Burkittsville you’ll find Phillip Souders. I believe his earliest deed dates 1779. His family also has a Jacob.He also owned land in Loudon County Virginia. Anthony owned land in Frederick in Creagerstown in 1785. His deed states he was from Loudon Co Va. he’s the same Anthony who was commissioned to clear a road in Virginia records. The name Anthony is also again in Phillip’s line. I could never figure out why Anthony was in the same neighboring area as Jacob on Mackey’s Choice and Jacob W. On Mackey’s luck.

I think I’ll search some records of Jacob in Virginia children born between 1783 and 1787. There might be a record which reference Ann verses Elizabeth. Also look for the marriage bond for Jacob and Ann Prilliman. Actually see the transcribe document. From my own experience searching deeds I found what I thought was a 8 was a actually a 3 or 5. More in likely it’s correct. But now I want to see it. Lol

John...

So, once again, we are somewhat stuck where I left off several years ago...

No verifiable tie in to my PA ancestors with the VA Jacob, but a lot of "what ifs..."

As I mentioned before, the pro genealogist I hired way back tended to dismiss the VA Jacob on the basis of naming patterns. Our only real tag to the Jacob, PA John's brother, was a deed transacted between the two of them in PA...after that, things get murky...

Also, again, in Family Search, the VA Jacob is tied to a completely different father than our Original Immigrant Jacob, but the data is wildly inaccurate, and it is also open source so anyone can post just about anything...and they do. This is why I don't think I want to alter the FS stuff to show the VA Jacob as my relative unless we can nail something definitively down.

Also, as mentioned before, I am far more annoyed at the inaccuracy for Original Jacob's son John, my ancestor, here on Geni. We have him totally identified and verified, yet others keep promoting lineages and siblings that are not accurate.

So, again, thank you for pointing all of this out! I am pretty much playing Devil's Advocate on it...but it sure opens a very wide door of genealogical connections for me if we can find more of a preponderance of facts...

Please keep me in the loop!

Robert Souders

I did find a Samuel Story and Henry Story living in Mount Pleasant Frederick Maryland around 1760.Samuel gave Henry a tract of land called Bite the Biter June 13, 1761. Describes the tract being on the branch of Linganore creek. The same tract sold two years later. I suspect Samuel was the elder one and possibly father to Henry.
Jacob Sowder son Adam was born in Frederick Md. 1758.
Need to see if I can connect Elizabeth Story back to either mention above. Just sharing.

Hello Robert,
Have you read the Wilson family tree blog? DNA matches on ancestry.com for a 5th great-granddaughter of Jacob Sowder (1734-1819) were found with close relatives of both men (John Rohrer & Martin Funck) who were named as the husbands of Jacob Sautter’s daughters (Mary & Susanna) following the probation of his will (1737) and in his will and subsequent land transactions. Similarly, distant autosomal DNA matches indicate that Henry Souther (1712-1784) could be the uncle of Jacob Sowder (1734-1819).

https://wilsonfamilytreealbumblog.wordpress.com/2022/02/21/tracing-...

John...

Hello once again, and thanks for informing me of this new information.

This does hit a lot of targets, as John Rohrer and Martin Funck are absolutely the spouses of our Original Immigrant Jacob (born1678) and his first unknown wife. This Jacob later married Ann Groff and their children were John (my lineage), Ann, and a Jacob born 1734.)

I think it is possible, for my research anyway, to change the Jacob in VA from "uncertain" to at least having an asterisk! Still a number of inconsistencies at the end of the day, but also a lot of matching data...as mentioned before, my pro genealogist several years ago did not think the VA Jacob was the same guy, but who knows?

I do strongly doubt that Henry Souther is related, as we have solid evidence of the Original Immigrant Jacob, and no brother has ever been indicated up to this point...we firmly think the Original Jacob came from Switzerland, a small town South of Zurich named Hirzel. He did not have a brother named Henry from all available research to this point.

So, this Henry being the uncle of Jacob Sowder of VA (1734 - 1819) is highly unlikely if he is indeed the third child of Original Immigrant Jacob by his second wife Ann Groff. Another fact that really doesn't seem to add up to a slam-dunk.

I certainly do appreciate being kept in the loop!

Please stay well and kindly let me know if anything else shows up!

Robert Souders

John...

Once more, I have done some deep diving into the question of this VA Jacob's parentage...

Thank you for the link with the Wilson family history...

From that very deeply researched link, please note the following paragraph...

Similar to the naming conventions followed by the British, the Germans would commonly name the first son after the father’s father, the second son after the mother’s father, and the third son would be named after the father. Consequently, it is likely that Jacob Sowder’s eldest son Adam Sowder was named after Jacob Sowder’s father. As an elder of the neighboring Conewago Church in 1741, Adam Saur (also transcribed as Sower) warrants serious consideration for being the father of Jacob Sowder (1734-1819). It should also be noted that on the death certificate of Jacob Sowder’s daughter Sarah Poff, the name of her father was listed as Adam Sowder[56] indicating Jacob Sowder (1734-1819) was likely named Adam Jacob Sowder as Germans commonly had two personal names.

This would be an argument that VA Jacob (1734 - 1819) is NOT the son of our Original Immigrant Jacob (1678 - 1737). This also reiterates the conclusion my pro genealogist came up with many years ago about the naming patterns not matching. Also, the above paragraph states that the naming pattern was from German custom, but Original Immigrant Jacob (1678 - 1737), his first confirmed son John, (or Hans from the 1737 Will and my line's ancestor) were confirmed Swiss roots, not German. (However, I don't know if the naming patterns might be similar.) In either event, there were no "Adams" my research at all.

Looking on FamilySearch for the VA Jacob, the primary match for VA Jacob (MQFZ-Z5D) shows a father named Jacob John Sowder in PA born 1712 and a mother Ann Gatewood, born
1715. All of this is not remotely close to known facts of our Original Immigrant Jacob.

Again, however, FS is notoriously inaccurate as it is open source.

So, once again, we are back to square one...as you say, we may never have absolute evidence, but also, there are some very interesting coincidences.

Robert Souders

There's one sticking point. Which could be nothing, but is curious.
Adam Souders buried in 1812 Bloomfield Township, Bedford is in very close proximity to Joshua Souders born 1779 in Hundinton Pa.
There are two Adam's in Frederick prior to 1810. The second Adam born 1762 is living with Christian. I have a DNA distance of one to Joshua. My gg grandfather Daniel William Souders was born in VA about 1803. That's almost certain that there are less than 9 generations.
It's believe he's a son to Daniel Souders born 1788. They bought property off the same estate less then a year apart in Sharpsburg Md. I'm thinking at some point Jacob W. Souders and Son Daniel were in VA prior to buying in Maryland around 1809. They somehow connect to Joshua in Hundington Pa. This would explain Jacob W. Souders signing of the deed dated 1789 with Ann.

The other curious thing I found is the Brumbaugh family related to Joshua move back in forth because of Indian skirmishes to areas close to my family line.

I'll keep digging

John...

Yes, I think at one time (or even more than once), I have gone over the same territory...but as rich as the Wilson family link is, over the last twenty years, the confirmed attachments to our Original Immigrant Jacob (1678 - 1737) have NEVER had a connection to anyone named "Adam."

Did you also note from my earlier reply that Family Search has a completely different parentage for VA Jacob (1734 - 1819)? This is the first I have come across those proposals ever...

Again, I only strive to use material that is confirmed if not by two, at least three different sources over time....but as we all know, Geni and FS are notoriously inaccurate...

As an example, recently, I traced Original Immigrant Jacob's 2nd wife, (John and his brother Jacob's mother, and very confirmed factually)

She was Ann Groff.

Groff is a very extensively researched line from the PA Soudersburg region.

Anyway, long story short, after about six or seven generations back, someone on Geni and subsequently FamilySearch, tied the Groff lineage to a European German royal lineage of the House of Nassau, and from there, as far back as about 900 AD.

The jump from the Groffs to the royals has absolutely no substance that I can find, but it cascades down into other locations such as Find A Grave and so on...

Somewhere, someone, wanted a connection to the European royalty with no facts to back it up.

Again, please keep me in the loop if you find anything new on VA Jacob!

Thanks!

Robert Souders

John...

Also, the links with the Groffs to the German royal family of Nassau seems to be present in Ancestry.com, again with distinct proofs that I can find.

Robert Souders

John...

Correction for the last note...NO distinct proofs of a connection to the German royals.

Robert Souders

I was looking at census records and found William and Jacob in Fulton Co. Pa. 1820. Jacob list 2 -16/26 as the oldest head of household. William head of household 26/45. My family line confirmed starts with William born about 1803 in Virginia. It's thought Daniel in Sharpsburg Maryland is his father based only on buying property from the same estate in 1826 and 1827. And discovering that William's first name is actually Daniel.Both living near each other leads you to think they are father and son. It's possible they are cousins
Jacob is thought to connect to Souders group project 6 but with no ties. William who does connect to group 6 was born 1802. This William was born between 1775 and 1796. His neighbor is Jacob Tanner. What's curious is my gg grandfather in1850 was living with Catherine Tanner born 1810 in Pa. I'm going to dig around to see if Catherine connects back to Jacob Tanner. Another name on that census is John Powell. There's a deed of James Souders buying property next to my gg grandfather from William Powell. I think it's worth looking around.

John...

For clarity, how does your ancestor Daniel William (born 1803) connect with VA Jacob (1734 - 1819)?

I am a bit confused about the connection...

Thanks.

Robert Souders

That’s my brick wall. A Souders in group 2 was in Virginia late 1790’s who would be the father to my gg grandfather. I have records that only suggest Daniel the eldest son to Jacob and Elizabeth Rohrer Souders is possibly his father. Census records for Daniel only show he was in Frederick Maryland. Obviously Virginia isn’t that far from Frederick and even closer to Sharpsburg. I’m basically looking for the Virginia connection most likely Northern Va. to a Souders in group 2. Family information passed down from my g grandfather David says we originally came from Fulton Pa. I have never been able to connect the dots. There’s a possibility William and Daniel are cousins. Especially knowing that Jacob W signed the deed in Frederick. Is there two Jacob W ? Is William in Bedford possibly Jacob.

I’m digging into those questions.

John...

Never considered that there could be two Jacob W.'s....

If so, that would erase a lot of uncertainty about the issue...

If so, that would squarely be more evidence that VA Jacob (1734 - 1819) is not the same as PA Jacob, son of our Original Immigrant Jacob (1678 - 1737).

Robert Souders