Lucia Knutsdotter Back (Westzynthius) - Problem with parents of Lucia

Started by Susanne Floyd on Sunday, August 21, 2022
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Curator Private User has a note at the top of the About section that

states:

Curator (Lars) note: Kan någon presentera bevis på att denna Lucias far skulle vara Canutus Henrici Westzynthius ? Kopplar loss Lucia tillsvidare.

- http://suku.genealogia.fi/showthread.php?t=12022

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I joined the Facebook group for the Sursill Family and found that this profile Lucia Knutsdotter Back is not recognized as a descendant of Erik Angerman when I submitted the line. Like many, I have a

It appears that someone has reattached Knut Henriksson Westzynthius and Lucia Hansdotter Fordell as her parents.

This is the information that I recevied from Anneli Kortisaari who works with the researchers for Genealotie Sursill and the Facebook group:

"Tiina Miettinen is a doctor of philosophy and a researcher at the University of Tampere. He has been researching the Sursill family for a long time. About 15 years ago, he accidentally found a Bure book in connection with another study, the book tells about the Sursill family. The Bure family is a prominent northern Swedish family that originated in the 16th century.
The Finnish Genealogical Society has also collected corrections and additions to the Sursill family for over 10 years.
There have been claims that Knut (Canutus) Westzynthius had not only 10 children but also an 11th child named Lucia.
No investigation or official document has been able to prove the existence of Lucia's daughter.
I myself have been researching the Sursill family for more than 20 years, and I too have not found a daughter named Lucia for Knut (Canutus) Westzynthius.
The information is therefore incorrect.
I know that Gen and MyHeritage have this incorrect information and are copying and spreading it.
It is sad to inform you that you have no connection to the Sursill family at least through that Lucia.
Whose daughter Lucia is then, I can't say."

I found another documented line for my direct connection to Erik Angeman. Perhaps parents need to be cut and Lucia needs to be MPd and this line needs to be cut and locked. I believe that the corrections we make on Geni fillter over to other platforms But this seems like it needs a discussion as it is noted on the profile as a problem.

I removed a couple of generations of her descendants from the Geni Sursill-project that had no other Sursill-connection than her.

There are probably more but please be careful when removing them as there could be a valid Sursill-connection via some other ancestor.

Yes, Markus Åberg, I had another line and I suspect that many others do also. It will take time. Thanks for that cautionary note.

Does anyone know if the tree match is helpful to correct parents of Lucia or is that just an "Unknown"?

The match has her as:

English (default): Lucia Andersdotter
Gender: Female
Birth: estimated between 1520 and 1638
Death: circa 1650
Immediate Family:
Daughter of Anders Mattsson Back, Bäck and Britha Back
Wife of Lars Mattsson Österkivilös, Back

The only helpful item, would be if that women, Lucia, was anywhere at all in the original sources actually mentioned with the name Westzynthius, I know that there is sources, but I can't see them without paying.If she was, she should be re-atteched.

Private User, If I could read the sources, I would be willing to pay, but alas, I am just a student of Finnish and I suspect these sources are in Swedish. My English, French, and some basic Finnish is not enough for this.

It seems like someone who is attached to her and familiar with the languages would try by now find the source. The Genealogie Sursilll has not found the sources yet. I think they have been trying after taling to someone of the group.

If I can assist, I will, but we need to have the tree aligned with the known sources, I think.

If you want to ask the opinion of other researchers about Lucia, there has been a lot of discussion about Sursill issues on Suku Forum.
You could send a question to Suku Forum at the address:
https://suku.genealogia.fi/

I can also write there, I have received a lot of help from there.

Anneli Kotisaari It seems clear that someone just added that last name Westzynthius after a wild guess that she must have been the daughter of Knut Henricsson Westzynthius.

Well, there are good speculations and there are bad. Knut was a common name during this time, Lucia not so common, but people did not often give a girl the same name as the mother when the mother was still living, it was important that the person they took the name from was no longer alive,otherwise one of them would soon die they thought.

At the other hand, if the first wife had died, and the man remarried, he would likely honor his dead wife by naming a daughter after her, usually the first born daughter, so if Lucia had been born in the secong marriage, it would have made some sense belonging to that specifik family.
Also, if a woman died in childbirth, a girl could inherit the mothers name.

Secondly, did Lucia really have the patronymic "Knutsdotter"? If it really is a wild guess, then it seems also like a typical post construction. Markus Åberg posted a match on her with the name Lucia Andersdotter Back.

Was she even called Lucia? Not a single one of her offsprings was named after her, and that is quite rare.

I think that those are all good points, Private User and support the Sursill researchers who have been unable to find the links. I hope this discussion has been helpful and not harmful. "Lucia" is still noted as my 11th grandmother.

Before just a few years ago, I knew of only one grandmother from Finland. Now, my Finnish lines are longer, more sourced and accurate than my "American" ones in almost every line. To say that I am happy to have Lucia or whomever she may be is an understatement. I have so many more "NN" and "Unknown wife of someone" in American lines that I am ok with Lucia.

Thank you Ulf Martinsson for the good comments.
I'm still waiting with interest to see what the people at Suku Forum think about it. In any case, an interesting discussion about Lucia has now taken place.

And it is true that this Lucia is Susanne's foremother.

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