Hungarian names

Started by Kyriakos Stavrou Neophytou on Sunday, April 30, 2023
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I want to ask about the rules of Hungarian names. I noticed that they use -fi for names according to "son of".

Let's say András Fülöp. If his father is János Fülöp, his name can be written as András Jánosfi Fülöp. However what if his father is also Andras Fülöp? Would it be Andras Fülöpfi or András Andrásfi Fülöp? Is it alternatively to use Sr. and Jr.?

https://heraldry.sca.org/names/magyarnames1012.html#:~:text=This%20....

A patronymic byname may also be formed by adding -fi to the father's name. This is an abbreviation of -fia, meaning "his son", and is also recorded as -fi, -fia, -fy, -fÿ, and others. This kind of patronymic is similar to English Johnson (son of John), but in Hungarian they are not as common as unmarked ones

I don't think it was commonly used.

No, "fi" is not commonly used in Hungarian names. The addition of "ne" for the wife is similar to the outdated practice in English of referring to women by their husbands' names. For example, Mrs. John Smith.

Thanks for the answer, especially who is from Hungary.

In my tree, if two people have the same name and surname, I generally don't want people to have exactly the same display name. This is my issue to write you because I have a lot of Hungarian people in my tree whose father have the same name and I would like to distinguish them. Initially I did what I do with the English-speaking names, writing Jnr and Snr.. I then observed the rules about patronyms in Hungary. I asked the AI if it is better to use that rule in such cases instead of Jnr. and Snr. which is a practice in those countries and AI said yes.

However in my question to AI about András Fülöp was confusing. While his father has the same name, it suggested me to write Andras Fülöpfi. I then asked what if his father was Janos Fülöp and the AI said András Jánosfi! I don't understand why in the one case it put the -fi to the surname and in the other case to the father's name.

Do you have any idea how I can distinguish a Hungarian father and son with the same name? In the past, could someone be András Andrásfi?

When -fia could be used?

I search @Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert tree. I saw that in some profiles he has the data only in Hungarian and in other in English! What's the criteria to do that? As a curator. does he consider acceptable to not have some names in English? Also, as for display name, would you recommend me to write the surname first?

Kyriakos Stavrou Neophytou To designaste children with the same name as parents, Hungarian often use the word ifjabb, which means Jnr. For example, ifjabb András Fülöp. It is sometimes abbreviated ifj.

My personal tree is a bit of a mess at this time. I originally added the names using the english form, but I am now in the process of reverting them to the Hungarian name fields, which is why there is a mix. I prefer the Hungarian format for Hungarian names because it swaps the order of the first and last names and that is how Hungarian individuals would refer to themselves. If you only fill in the Hungarian language field, then you won't have to worry about the display names and writing the surname first because Geni will display it in the Hungarian form. If the individuals were not English I do not see a reason to use the English language fields for their names.

What about senior people?

What do the other Hungarians do in case of language name fields? Do they choose English and revert the display name or they do like you?

For profiles I manage I add the names in both the Hungarian fields and the English fields. That way Hungarians can see them with their preference and English speaking people can see them with their preference.

I suggest that you leave the display name field blank as display names overwrite users preferences as well as over-riding system preferences (like surname then first name)

For seniors, Hungarian uses Idősebb. For example the painter Idősebb Lucas Cranach: https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Cranach_(fest%C5%91,_1472%E2%80%931553)

@Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert, as you discribe for me that there is Snr and Jnr in Hungarian, it will not be bad to leave it as it is in English since it has the same meaning. There is no reason someone to read Idősebb who doesn't speak Hungarian. AI wrote me that Jnr and Snr was never used in Hungarian.

Since -fi means "son of", what were Hungarians using for "daughter of"?

@ Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 i didnt understand your 2nd post.

Kyriakos Stavrou Neophytou When you put values into the display name field you override the display name for everyone else on Geni.

So If I preferred to see First Name (Birth Name) Last Name but you put Last Name (Birth Name) First Name into the display field it would affect how I see the name.

So you are telling me to write both Hungarian and English with the way is written in each language, right?

Not exactly.

I am saying
Add the names into the fields in the appropriate language tabs and leave the display name blank

Example - Jane Smith who married John Brown

  • Jane would go in the First Name field in English and Hungarian language tabs
  • Smith would go in the Birth Name field in English and Hungarian language tabs
  • Brown would go in the Last Name field in English and Hungarian language tabs
  • leave the display name empty in English and Hungarian language tabs.

Here’s an example
Julianna Szlamkai

That what I meant. Thanks. Actually that what I do except if it is necessary, where as I said I might want to distinguish that someone who has the same name and surname with others.

Tamas told me about Idősebb for Snr. in Hungarian. So since I need to distinguish them I will use both in each language I guess?

What about some people I find in myheritage with -fi at the end or -ne. I must add them in such cases or ignore them?

You could add that into the aka field if you wanted. It might assist for auto searching to locate records. I know that some records have the ne on the name for married women.

If I have a Hungarian name surname who is son of József. I want to distinguish it from another person who has name surname the same. I will use Józseffi. I write Surname Józseffi Name or Józseffi first in Hungarian language?

You need to put the names into the fields as per their labels for all languages.

Ie first name goes into the first name field
Birth surname goes into the birth surname field
Name at death goes into the last name field

As a tip Geni will show you what info is in the field in the other language underneath it.

Was his name actually Józseffi or was it József ?

I've learnt recently that in some countries women don't change their name by marriage even in official BDM records. They will always be known by their birth names. However if they emmigrate to an english speaking country official records will record them using their husband's surnames and until recent times without regard of their personal wishes. And newspapers didn't even use their first names but as Mrs whatever the name of their husband was.
This makes it hard for a software algorithm to successfully find matching records and newspaper articles.
So i would encourage people to add language tabs, to record the names an individual would be known by in the countries that they lived in especially if they moved through different countries that used different methods to record someone, or different ways to record the same name in different alphabets. Doing so will help the search algorithms to find the records and smart matches that you are looking for.

Leanne, the name of the father is József. Józseffi was used sometimes in Hungary to say "son of " as we said. You will tell me this is not used anymore. I know. As I said I never want in my tree two people with exactly the same display name! That's why I am asking this question. If you don't like the idea of "-fi", I am asking you, do you have any alternative suggestion for distinguishing the names?

https://www.geni.com/people/Kyriakos-Neophytou
The name should be recorded as the name that the person actually used rather than changing their name to one that they did not use just because you want to differentiate between them.

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