• Join - It's Free
« Back to Public Discussions

Alexander Herring, II - Conflicting Info in Locked FIelds

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Wednesday, June 14, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

View 2 More
Showing all 21 posts

This documentation on the Herring family

https://archive.org/stream/lineageandtradi00hendgoog/lineageandtrad...

shows:

"John Alexander Herring, of Norfolkshire County, England, ran away from home
when a mere lad of 15, coming to New Jersey ahout 1670, where he married. Later he
moved to the Valley of Virginia, now Rockingham County, about 1736. One of his sons
was Alexander Herring. He qualified as lieutenant, July, 1756. He married Abigail
Harrison, a descendant of the James River Harrisons. This family are said to be
entitled to bear the same Arms, differing only in the crest, which is a boar's head
holding in its mouth four arrows. These Herrings were given their Arms, etc., for
saving the King's life while boar hunting. There were four brothers, and one of them
lost his life in the encounter (ref. Dr. Burke Chrisman). Alexander Herring had
issue: No. 1, John Herring; No. 2, Jesse Herring, killed in the Revolution; No. S,
Leonard Herring, who also fought In the Revolution, went West and had several
children; No. 4, William Herring, made lieutenant in 1778. and qualified as captain
October 24, 1780. He married Elizabeth Stephenson"

which indicates that Alexander I came from England as a boy, arrived in New Jersey, married and moved to Valley of Virginia, now Rockingham County, It goes on further down to state that Alexander II's son William moved to SC but as far as I can tell, it doesn't indicate that Alexander II or his father were ever in Delaware. Nor does it list the name of the wife of Alexander I / mother of Alexander II.

I wouldn’t trust this book as being accurate on origins,

It sure has a lot of details

Origins

An abstract of his Will, dated 19 Sep 1735, is as follows:

"Alexander Herring of Sussex County, sick: To loving son Alexander Herring, house and 189 acres. To loving wife Margaret Herring one feather bed and furniture. To loving daughter Eady Herring beds and furniture when 16 years of age. to my daughter, Esther Wood one shilling. To my daughter Sarah Prettyman one shilling." Witness: John ( ) Mariner, John Russell, Elizabeth ( ) Mariner. (Signed) Alexand X Herring (SEAL).[5] The probate date of his will was 22 Mar 1736.

Yes, I've seen that, which is the info I referenced elsewhere as to his wife' name being confirmed as Margaret.

And the Will was probated in Sussex County, Delaware.

The book source ("Lineage and tradition of the Herring, Conyers, Hendrick, Boddie, Perry, Crudup, Denson and Hilliard families". Page 4) seems to smush Alexander l & ll together. But the father, the immigrant ancestor, died in Delaware, his son migrated to Augusta County.

See also “The Harrison Repository”.

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~harrisonrep/genealogy/Harrison/d000...

For what it’s worth, I had first looked at these families years ago and from varying angles (Lincoln, Doss, Harrison, Prettyman). I have confidence in how it’s looking currently.

There’s an issue with Frances (Herring) Jolly

Either her birth date is way off, or her she has the wrong parents.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/4:1:GF2H-D9P

CAUTION: STOP! DO NOT CONFUSE with ROCKINGHAM WILLIAM. DIFFERENT SPOUSES, CHILDREN, LOCALITIES, etc etc. This William has been untangled from erroneous merges with other William Herrings. There were several William Herrings around at the same time who are not the same person. Please do not repeat that error.

This William Herring is the patriarch of the Herring family in the book "Lineage and tradition of the Herring, Conyers, Hendrick, Boddie, Perry, Crudup, Denson, and Hilliard families".

Please note that Elizabeth Stephenson was not the wife of this William Herring. She was the wife of the William Herring who lived in Rockingham County, Virginia. These two Williams are easily confused but they were two different people living in two different states.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Lineage_and_Tradition_of_the_H...

William Herring and family then moved to Pendleton County, where he bought land from Samuel Dalrymple, December 27, 1790. The Herring names appearing as witnesses to this purchase were Jacob, Isaac and Ephraim Herring. This tract was 320 acres and is described as "lying on Generostee Creek, waters of Savannah River." This document is dated December 27, 1790. This property lies very near Anderson, the present county seat. In this transfer the name appears written as follows : Herron, Herren and Herrin, and is signed William Herring. In 1813 he had 1,000 acres surveyed for him. It lay in Oconee County, near the county line, and adjoined Elisha Herring's land. William Herring's will was made in 1812. His son Elisha was his executor. He died about 1819.

Children

Francis Frankie Jolly (born Herring)
Elisha Herring
Stephen Herring
Jolly (born Herring)
Elijah M. Herring

That matches with the Will uploaded https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000171553218967

But not the bio for William Herring, of Rockingham County

So we have separating to do.

William Francis Herring
Male
1718 – 1812

See the book "Lineage and tradition of the Herring, Conyers, Hendrick, Boddie, Perry, Crudup, Denson, and Hilliard families" for detailed documentation of this family.

The wife of William Herring, d.1812, is not known.

His five children are documented as:
1. Elisha Herring
2. Stephen Herring
3. wife of William Jolly
4. wife of Peter Keys
5. Elijah Herring

United States Census, 1790", database with images, FamilySearch (ark:/61903/1:1:XHKF-BQM : Sat May 20 07:17:41 UTC 2023), Entry for William Herring, 1790.

"United States Census, 1800," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHRC-WN9 : accessed 16 June 2023), William Hern, Pendleton District, South Carolina, United States; citing p. 147, NARA microfilm publication M32, (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.), roll 50; FHL microfilm 181,425.

Next to Isaac and Ephraim who witnessed his 1790 property deed. Son Stephen is also on the same page. All spelled Hern here.

"South Carolina Probate Records, Bound Volumes, 1671-1977," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-FX98-2L?cc=1919417&wc=... : 21 May 2014), Anderson > Wills, 1791-1834 > image 97 of 293; citing Department of Archives and History, Columbia.

Thanks for all your work on this, Erica. I didn't stay up late last night and just now starting my day today. It looks like you pulled an all-nighter.

Here’s the South Carolina family, will based.

William Herring, of Pendleton District & wife of William Herring

Erica, regarding Frances (Herring) Jolly, I had never had a mother for Frances in my tree until yesterday. My research yesterday has led me to have her mother as Elizabeth Stephens, because the list of the children for her father, that includes her as the wife of Wiliam Jolly states this:

"William Herring, made lieutenant in 1778. and qualified as captain
October 24, 1780. He married Elizabeth Stephenson"

https://archive.org/stream/lineageandtradi00hendgoog/lineageandtrad...

It was actually about this Elizabeth Stephenson that I began looking into the lines again because I saw trees on Ancestry listing Elizabeth Stephenson as the mother of Frances (Herring) Jolly. Since I hadn't given her mother a name in past years, I started trying to find documentation for why others have her in their trees adn that's what I found.

As for the date of her birth, I've not seen any documentation that lists dates for her other than just various trees. My guess is they've all copied from this site or other trees that got the info from here:

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/v/a/n/Billie-J-Vanderburg/GENE7-0011....

.Frances Herring, born 1744 in SC.She was the daughter of 394. William Herring and 395. Elizabeth Stephenson.

But there's no source on that site for where they got that date. On Ancestry, no birth from any documents has shown up in her Hints. But I'm not seeing what the problem is about her date of birth?

Now that we’ve separated the Pendleton SC man from the Rockingham VA man, Frances Herring Jolly is fine chronologically.

See the notes at https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GF2H-D9P

There is no documentation of his birth date or location. Family tradition is that he came to SC from Virginia. See book ""Lineage and tradition of the Herring, Conyers, Hendrick, Boddie, Perry, Crudup, Denson, and Hilliard families"" in sources.

She cannot have been the daughter of Elizabeth ‘Betsey’ Herring

The bottleneck now is the origins of William Herring, of Pendleton District

I detached William Herring, of Pendleton District as son of Alexander Herring, II & Abigail Herring The chronology & locations do not work.

So you're discrediting the info on this site?

https://archive.org/stream/lineageandtradi00hendgoog/lineageandtrad...

The upper information - yes. Its confused and does not conform with Will evidence.

From William Herring down it looks good.

Ok, thanks for your work on it, Erica.

For further support that William of Rockingham County was the son of Alexander ll, see

https://archive.org/details/lincolnkinsman03warr/page/8/mode/2up (Chart) and the detailed article in the preceding pages of The Lincoln kinsman by Warren, Louis Austin, 1885-1983. (Publication date 1938).

There are no South Carolina people in these related families that I can see.

Erica, I was reviewing the work done on the conflicting William Herring lines and I wanted to thank you again. You did an amazing job. The Rockingham VA William and the Pendleton William didn't even have children with the same names. It's amazing so many people have had them confused on every site and in so many trees. Even that book had them confused. Not the first time I've seen a supposedly well-researched book have glaring errors though.

People tend to trust publications, but their info is only as trustworthy as the research done. He's probably deceased by now, but an elderly Gambrell cousin, a retired attorney, wrote a book on the Gambrell lines. years ago. I paid $50 for a copy. It's a beautiful book and was donated to several libraries where it is touted as a very well-researched genealogy source. So imagine my major disappointed when I read in the book that my branch of the Gambrell family had 'disappeared' in Summerland, Smith County, Missouri and nothing more was known about us. The problem with that is we were never in Missouri. We were in Summerland, Smith County, Mississippi where I grew up, where many of my relatives are buried and where so many of my kin still live. It seems any good researcher could have found us! lol So, after that I know firsthand how easy it is for genealogy books to have inaccuracies.

After reviewing your work, I have to agree that the VA and SC Herrings may be related somehow but are definitely not the same people. I've corrected it all in my Ancestry tree with links to the Geni profiles and noted on the profiles of the two William Herrings what the conflict is. I even posted info, including Geni links, to the Wikii profile of my Frances (Herring) Jolly. It may take a while, but hopefully over time people will read the info from your research and begin to make corrections in their trees.

Glad it helps.

Showing all 21 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion

English (US)   eesti   Svenska   Español (España)   Français   עברית   Norsk (bokmål)   dansk   Nederlands   Deutsch   »
To enable the proper functioning and security of the website, we collect information via cookies as specified in our Cookie Policy. Geni does not use any third-party cookies.