Philadelphia Alchorne (Newnham) - Philadelphia Alchorne has migrated 300 years too early

Started by Private User on Wednesday, July 12, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

  • Private User
    Geni Pro
  • Geni Pro
  • Private User
    Geni Pro

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 22 posts

Trying to untangle some of the Alcornes, I found Philadelphia Alcorne Newnham, born in 1479. This made no sense to me; nobody was named Philadelphia in England in the 15th century.

There are all sorts of lineage notes in the Overview, but none of them lead to actual evidence; they are all unsourced family trees.

There WAS a Philadephia Newnham who married a Thomas Alchorne -- here she is, in Wikitree -- https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Newnham-158

and we have her in Geni, though not married to Thomas -- Philadelphia Vinall -- again, no sources, and I don't know where the Hilda part comes from.

So the impossible Philadelphia needs to be detached from the medieval Thomas Alchorne.

That leaves the rest of her family. I'm suspicious of her sister Charlotte; though the name Charlotte was used in France this early, it wasn't, in England.

Following the line up, there are other issues -- Mary Jane Martin -- Mary Jane was not a name at this time; Anastasia Martin -- Anastasia was not a name used in England at this time; nobody else goes up my nose, but there are no sources, and I can't find any yet.

At any rate.

Philadephia needs to go; Mary Jane needs to go; Anastasia needs to go; Charlotte needs to go; and really, if there are no sources for the rest of Philadelphia's family, they all need to be detached.

I think our time traveling Newnhams originate either here

Thomas Newnham

Or with his son

Thomas Newnham

Elizabeth Cope Is good to go, she’s sourced here:

'Parishes : Adstock', in A History of the County of Buckingham: Volume 4, ed. William Page (London, 1927), pp. 140-144. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/bucks/vol4/pp140-144 [accessed 13 July 2023].

… William de Hausted died without issue before 1346, and his lands passed to his sister Elizabeth. (fn. 59) Joan de Den, who may possibly be her daughter, held this fee in 1346. (fn. 60) In 1393 John Cope and Elizabeth his wife held Adstock Manor (here called Hausted for the first time), (fn. 61) and it seems likely that it had passed to the Cope family by marriage, for Adstock certainly follows the same descent as Denshanger (Northants), which John Cope held by the courtesy of England in 1397. (fn. 62) …

And here:

http://sibertancestry.org/Alphabet/P/Palmer/AnneMarbury.htm

John Cope was born about 1355. [271] He died in December 1414. He married Joan, the daughter and heir of John Newenham, by his wife Elizabeth, the daughter and heir of Baron Hausted (Hansted) of Hausted.[272]

I need your help interpreting this, if you’d be so kind.

Did I get this right according to notes at
http://www.teachergenealogist007.com/2010/05/cox-131920-131921.html

John Newenham Married Elizabeth Newenham

John Cope married 1) Elizabeth Newenham 2) Joan (unknown) d, 1434

Yes I think that’s right.

A 2017 study of John Cope, Esq., of Denshanger suggests that Elizabeth Cope must have had child / children, or he would have lost his share of the manor at her death. However, that issue didn’t survive, because his heir was born 1396.

I’m actually not sure that rules out John Cope as Elizabeth’s son, however.

Opinions?


Northamptonshire Past and Present (2017) Number 70. John Cope of Deanshanger (c.1355 – 1414)...an eminent person. By William Cope. Page 9-15. < PDF >.

John’s first marriage ended with Elizabeth’s death in the mid 1390s, certainly before 1397. In that year, John took the ‘unusual step’ of buying the reversion of the manor of Deanshanger for a fee of 100 marks, and a fortieth part of a knight’s fee, because he held the manor ‘by the courtesy’,9 meaning that he and Elizabeth had had a child or children. Since the manor was Elizabeth’s to start with, had he not taken this step, on his death it would have passed back to her family. One third was still held by Anne, widow of William Hausted, his wife’s aunt. ….

John married his second wife Joan in 1395 or 1396.Their first born was a son named John, born in 1396. John’s Stony Stratford Inquisition Post Mortem tells us that his son and heir John was a minor of 18 years at the death of his father in December 1414.12 Some pedigrees have John married to second wife Joan in 1393 but wrongly call her Joan Newenham, so this period in John’s pedigree can be confusing. Joan survived John and died in 1434.13 It had been said in one pedigree that the son John ‘died before his mother.’14

John and Joan had two more sons.The naming of Stephen, second born, as heir in 1434 confirms that his elder brother John was already deceased. Joan’s Inquisition Post Mortem tells us that Stephen was 24 and more at her passing in 1434,15 so he was born in 1410. Stephen died on 29 July 1445 …

The last son of John and Joan was William, born between 1410 and 1414, who married the daughter and heir of William Gossage of Spratton. Spratton is a village north of Northampton, 22 miles from Deanshanger.William Gossage acquired Spratton in its entirety, and his daughter carried it in marriage to William Cope, who according to Victoria County History, held it in 1488.19 This succession makes some sense, but the date is problematic in that it makes this William a contemporary of his grandson, William Cope of Hanwell, Oxfordshire. For this, VCH cites George Baker in The History and Antiquities of the county of Northampton and Baker cites Knightley’s Evidences.20 William and wife Gossage had one son, named either Stephen or Alexander, of whom there is sparse documentary evidence. Other than his listing, by either name, in various Cope family pedigrees, nothing is known of his birth or death dates, marriage, domicile, or occupation. In Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, he is purported to have died ‘temp HenryVII’.This is possible, but he did not leave a documentary footprint. There is much confusion over his name and he is listed as either father or grandfather of William Cope of Hanwell, cofferer to Henry VII. I come down on the side of Alexander and father.Adding proof ofAlexander’s early demise,upon the death ofAlexander’s father, William Cope, the manor of Spratton passed to his nephew, John Cope, son of his elder brother Stephen. Consequently, we must assume that Alexander had already died earlier than ‘temp Henry VII’.



The pedigree unhelpfully ignores widow Joan Cope altogether and elides her into Elizabeth Newenham. It later goes into a period of more massive confusion I’ve seen before. I believe this Cope line leads to the Puritan Rev. Francis Marbury and the radical Anne Hutchinson.

See https://archive.org/details/miscellaneagenea04howa/page/432/mode/2up

In any event, still no sign of siblings for heiress Elizabeth Newenham.

Disconnecting Thomas Newnham and next step will be to go down that tree to make sense of dates.

https://media.geni.com/p13/95/e5/59/ec/5344483b60272102/cope-john-1414_original.png?hash=03c73e57197c974506cea8a5a3ec7e6e9a7ef452712116144a98c32de54eba65.1770191999 Is silent on which wife mothered which children also.

It does not affect descent, as John Cope is the only possible son of Elizabeth (called Joan at HOP), and all agree he died without issue.

One additional factoid gleaned the HOP Biography is that he ended up with the Adstock manor at the death of Anne (or Amie) Hanstede (Amy de Hausted) so there weren’t other surviving Hausteds or Newenhams by 1400, I would think.

You are an angel.

How did this line get so mangled?

Still reeling from Phildelphia's major time travel.

Haven’t gotten to that part yet - distracted by chasing the real Newenhams.

I think I have to go to tree bottom & work up to Philadelphia Alchorne, which we must admit, is a terrific name. I’m guessing Quaker.

Is it as bad as Patty Sue Milk? Maybe.

No one is as anachronistic as Patty Sue Milk!

I just removed Elizabeth Hounstowe as mother of Frances Goldham

Did she drift down from the 14th century?

Possibility for sure.

That disconnect seemed to break off any American descendants of Thomas Newnham:

https://www.geni.com/list/descendants/6000000186985533821#13

So, no, longer my problem? :)

Well, no, found the notable American this pedigree is connected to.

Steve Kanaly

Philadelphia (Newnham) Alchorne is Steve Kanaly's 14th great grandmother.

https://www.geni.com/path/Steve-Kanaly+is+related+to+Philadelphia-Alchorne?from=6000000165618230835&path_type=blood&to=6000000055476998075

So, tagging René Robert G S Graham Anthony Leech & Sharon Doubell curating for assistance.

Yes, I had looked at Thomas Alchorn, II, Church Warden, of Town Row before, trying to make sure the Thomases were separate.

https://theweald.org/N10.asp?ID=204412. Doesn’t list parents.

Thomas Alchorne

The site used for Thomas Alchorne removed the data.

https://www.combedown.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I515&tree=miller

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GDK3-F2K

Has 11 oktober 1497
Isfield, Sussex, England, Verenigd Koninkrijk marriage to https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GK2Y-KC4

cites other trees.

And what do you know, as soon as I disconnected Philadelphia from the 15th century Newnhams, the 18th century folk popped right up. Merging ….

And hey it gets better.

Not only did Philadelphia Newnham master the art of time traveling; not only did she relate herself to early British peerage; not only did she have a coat of arms; not only did she marry 2-3 times; she was a bigamist, a criminal, and sent a convict son to Australia.

I’m getting very proud of our Philadelphia.

See her very complete Biography at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Newnham-158 with 39 citations.

1797: Thomas Allcorn, at the age of 41, died on 1-Oct-1797 in Buxted [21], leaving Philadelphia a widow.
1800: After being widowed Philadelphia may have returned to her home village of Isfield (even if only temporarily), given that in 1800 she appears to have commenced preparations for a marriage to John Harris in nearby Ringmer. The parish register entry only contains names for Philadelphia and John, but no dates for Banns [22] and there is no associated Bishops transcript entry. No marriage record can be found in other nearby parished, and for her subsequent marriage in 1802 she gave her name as Philly Alcorn, not Philly Harris. This all indicates that the marriage was not actually finalised. John Harris is likely to have been baptised in Ringmer on 21-Jan-1773 [23] There are possible numerous death records for people named "John Harris" that can be located, but nothing definite. The only death record in the right time period is a John Harris, died in Brighton four days after her next marriage - so unlikely. This all may indicate that John Harris was still alive when Philadelphia remarried - strengthening the conclusion that the marriage was not finalised.

Irrespective of whether the marriage was finalised, Philadelphia and John's only child, Jonathan Harris, was born in 1800 and baptised in Mayfield [24] on 12-Oct-1800 [25]. His parents are listed as John Harris and Philadelphia Harris (and interestingly, he is not listed as illegitimate, presumably because his parents indicated they were married even though they nay not have been). Johnathan may have remained in Mayfield (or at least nearby Buxted) as his marriage 21 years later occurred in Mayfield, and indicated him as being "of this parish". Jonathan eventually did follow his mother into a life of crime and was transported to Australia, but lived a long and fascinating life: three wives, seventeen children, and dying on 4-Oct-1891 at the age of 91.

Oooh and Philli turned states witness against son Jonathan Harris, apparently:

1825: Philadelphia (again using the name Vinall) was again in the Lent Assizes, this time charged with receiving stolen goods [35]. She was found guilty and convicted to 1 year imprisonment. In the same court sessions, Philadelphia's son Jonathan Harris was also found guilty of buglary and convicted to transportation for life to Australia. There is a note on Jonathan's record that "Philadelphia possibly let off for giving kings evidence in Jonothan's case".

Not a good mother.

I have added a bit to her 2 convict sons
George Allcorn, Convict “York” 1832
Jonathan G Harris, Convict “Marquis of Hastings” 1826

I will add more sources and info on them and their Aussie descendants

Thank you. This has turned into a productive exercise after all.

It is a small world.

Her 2nd great grand daughter married my 4th cousin

Showing all 22 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion