Alice "Elsgen" Rogers

Birth surname has also been reported to be Cosgrove.

Given name has also been reported to be:

• Elsgen
• Grace
• Elizabeth

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Basic information from the Thomas Rogers Society:

Alice Cosford[1],[2]

• F, b. 10 May 1573
• Alice Cosford was baptized on 10 May 1573 at Watford, co. Northamptonshire, England. She was the daughter of George Cosford and Margart (Willis?).
• Alice Cosford married Thomas Rogers [Mayflower Pilgrim], son of William Rogers and Eleanor, on 24 October 1597 at Watford, co. Northamptonshire, England.

Children of Alice Cosford and Thomas Rogers [Mayflower Pilgrim]

• 1. Thomas Rogers[3] b. 24 Mar 1598/99
• 2. poss. Richard Rogers[3] b. 12 Mar 1599
• 3. Joseph Rogers+[3] b. 23 Jan 1602/3, d. between 2 and 15 Jan 1677/78
• 4. John Rogers+[3] b. 6 Apr 1606, d. bt 26 Aug 1691 - 20 Sep 1692
• 5. Elizabeth Rogers[4] b. 26 Dec 1609
• 6. Margaret Rogers[4] b. 30 May 1613

Citations

1.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, p. 1.

2.[S14] Clifford L. Stott, "English Ancestry of Thomas Rogers."

3.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, 1:1.

4.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, 1:2.

Information that might justify speculation that Alice died in Leiden (albeit inconclusive), from the Richmond Family Ancestry website: http://www.richmondancestry.org/thomasrogers.shtml

Robert Wakefield’s examination of the 1622 Leiden poll tax lists reveal that when Thomas [1] Rogers left for America his wife Alice, two daughters Elizabeth and Margaret, and son John remained in Leiden.[13] In the household of Antony Clements, apparently one of the English Separatists who did not emigrate to Plymouth, are found the following persons:

• 1. Jan Thomasz orphan from England without means
• 2. Elsgen (Alice) [14] Rogiers, widow of Thonis Rogiers an English woman in the back part of the house or in the kitchen
• 3. Lysbeth (Elizabeth)
• 4. Grietgen (Margaret)

In the Dutch patronymic system Jan Thomasz is equivalent to John, son of Thomas. His placement above Thomas Rogers’ widow and his description as “orphan from England” suggest that he is John [2] Rogers, later of Plymouth. It has been speculated that the daughter Elizabeth came to Plymouth and married Samuel [1] Eddy, since the latter was granted land at Plymouth on 3 June 1662 reserved for “the firstborn children” of the colony or their parents. As Samuel did not in his own right qualify on either count, it is possible that his wife Elizabeth was a daughter of Thomas [1] Rogers. [15]

In summary, the primary evidence gathered from Dutch and New England sources establishes that Thomas Rogers had a wife named Alice, who survived him, and a least four children: Joseph, John, Elizabeth and Margaret, probably born in that order. Joseph was likely the eldest because he came with his father to Plymouth in 1620, while the birth orders of the others is suggest by the tax list. Thomas left England by 1616 or 1617, when he bought his house at Leiden.

618. Westgate, Alice W. A. & Reeves, Ann T., Family of Thomas Rogers, General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 2000, Mayflower Families: vol. 19, p. 1.

Husband Thomas and son Joseph were part of the Mayflower contingent.Alice and daughters Elizabeth and Margaret and son John are listed inthe 1622 Leiden tax lists in the household of Anthony Clements.

Also known as Elsgen, which is Alice in Dutch.

: I421018

• Name: Alice Cosford
• Sex: F
• Birth: BET 1560 AND 1580 in England
• Note: Ref; Atl. Spelling: Elsgen = Alice in Dutch.
• Ref; AFN: 1P12-0T1
• Ref; Christened: 10 May 1573, Watford, Northampton, England
• Father: George Cosford
• Mother: Maragret Willis

Marriage 1 Thomas Rogers , Pilgrim b: BEF 1572 in Of Watford, Northampton, England

• Married: 24 OCT 1597 in Watford, Northampton, England

Children

• 1. Thomas Rogers b: ABT 24 MAR 1597/98 in Watford, Northampton, England
• 2. Richard Rogers b: ABT 12 MAR 1598/99 in Watford, Northampton, England
• 3. Joseph Rogers b: ABT 23 JAN 1601/02 in Watford, Northampton, England
• 4. John Rogers b: ABT 6 APR 1606 in Watford, Northampton, England
• 5. Elizabeth Rogers b: ABT 26 DEC 1608 in Watford, Northampton, England
• 6. Margaret Rogers b: ABT 30 MAY 1613 in Watford, Northampton, England

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Not to be confused with the following individuals (wrong husband Thomas Rogers):

Sherman, John (1585-1616 in Eng) & Grace {Makin},

• m/2 Thomas Rogers,
• m/3 Roger Porter; in Eng, b 14 May1610; Dedham, Eng.

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Her parents were Tobias and Katherine. They resided at Fingeringhoe, Essex, England.

In “Ancestry of Rev. John Sherman and Capt. John Sherman” (NEHGR 51:309-315 (1897)), the author reviews the various wills of the time and concludes that Grace was most likely the daughter of Tobias Makin although confusion about her being born a Coolidge remains, and that she married multiple times:

m Rev. John Sherman (who died by 1625) by whom she had two sons -- Capt. John Sherman and Richard Sherman -- both under 21 in 1625.

m Thomas Rogers (who died 1638) by whom she had a daughter Elizabeth (who married Daniel Smith) (a 1625 will of Anne Sherman Auger/Anger includes: “I give to the two children of the wife of Thomas Rogers, John Sherman and Richard Sherman, my kinsmen, ten shillings a piece at their ages of one and twenty.” This bequest tells that Thomas Rogers married a widow whose former husband was named ___ Sherman, by whom she had these two children, John Sherman and Richard Sherman.

m William Palmer, widower (who died shortly after 1650). Palmer’s daughter Martha, by a former wife, had married Capt. John Sherman. They were married before Thomas Rogers died, for their first child John Sherman was born November 2, 1638.

m Roger Porter, widower, who died April 3, 1654, aged 71.

Did not come to America

Parents: Tobias Makin (1548-1610) and Katherine Bell (1552-1610), both of Fingringhoe, Essex, England.

Married:

1. on 24 Jan 1616 in Leiden, Holland to Thomas Rogers. He was born in Jul 1586 in Of, Dedham, Essex, England, christened on 11 Jul 1587 in Stratford On Avon, Warwick, England, died on 12 Nov 1638 in Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts and was buried on 20 Aug 1639 in Watertown, Connecticut. He was the son of Barnard Rogers b. 1565 and Miss Mc Murdocke b. abt 1570, both of Scotland. n.b. NOT Thomas Rogers of the "Mayflower."

Children of Thomas Rogers and Elsgen Grace Elizabeth Makin:

1. John Rogers, b. abt. 1614 See John Rogers & Anna Churchman
2. Elizabeth Rogers, b. abt. 1609
3. Lysbe Rogers, b. abt. 1609
4. Grietgen Rogers, b. abt. 1609
5. Thomas Rogers, b. abt. 1609
6. Joseph Rogers, b. 1610
7. Margaret Rogers, b. abt. 1612

Links

• http://www.xtal.info/merewether/mer539.html
• http://www.thejohnsonclan.org/genealogy/ancestors/Price-pedigree/40...

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Basic information from the Thomas Rogers Society:

http://www.thomasrogerssociety.com/p1.htm#i4

Alice Cosford[1],[2]

F, b. 10 May 1573 Alice Cosford was baptized on 10 May 1573 at Watford, co. Northamptonshire, England. She was the daughter of George Cosford and Margart (Willis?). Alice Cosford married Thomas Rogers [Mayflower Pilgrim], son of William Rogers and Eleanor, on 24 October 1597 at Watford, co. Northamptonshire, England. Children of Alice Cosford and Thomas Rogers [Mayflower Pilgrim]

1. Thomas Rogers[3] b. 24 Mar 1598/99 2. poss. Richard Rogers[3] b. 12 Mar 1599 3. Joseph Rogers+[3] b. 23 Jan 1602/3, d. between 2 and 15 Jan 1677/78 4. John Rogers+[3] b. 6 Apr 1606, d. bt 26 Aug 1691 - 20 Sep 1692 5. Elizabeth Rogers[4] b. 26 Dec 1609 6. Margaret Rogers[4] b. 30 May 1613 Citations

1.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, p. 1.

2.[S14] Clifford L. Stott, "English Ancestry of Thomas Rogers."

3.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, 1:1.

4.[S1] Ann T. [Revised by], (Originally compiled by Alice W. A. Westgate) Reeves, Rogers-Silver, 1:2.

Information that might justify speculation that Alice died in Leiden (albeit inconclusive), from the Richmond Family Ancestry website: http://www.richmondancestry.org/thomasrogers.shtml

Robert Wakefield’s examination of the 1622 Leiden poll tax lists reveal that when Thomas [1] Rogers left for America his wife Alice, two daughters Elizabeth and Margaret, and son John remained in Leiden.[13] In the household of Antony Clements, apparently one of the English Separatists who did not emigrate to Plymouth, are found the following persons:

1. Jan Thomasz orphan from England without means 2. Elsgen (Alice) [14] Rogiers, widow of Thonis Rogiers an English woman in the back part of the house or in the kitchen 3. Lysbeth (Elizabeth) 4. Grietgen (Margaret) In the Dutch patronymic system Jan Thomasz is equivalent to John, son of Thomas. His placement above Thomas Rogers’ widow and his description as “orphan from England” suggest that he is John [2] Rogers, later of Plymouth. It has been speculated that the daughter Elizabeth came to Plymouth and married Samuel [1] Eddy, since the latter was granted land at Plymouth on 3 June 1662 reserved for “the firstborn children” of the colony or their parents. As Samuel did not in his own right qualify on either count, it is possible that his wife Elizabeth was a daughter of Thomas [1] Rogers. [15]

In summary, the primary evidence gathered from Dutch and New England sources establishes that Thomas Rogers had a wife named Alice, who survived him, and a least four children: Joseph, John, Elizabeth and Margaret, probably born in that order. Joseph was likely the eldest because he came with his father to Plymouth in 1620, while the birth orders of the others is suggest by the tax list. Thomas left England by 1616 or 1617, when he bought his house at Leiden.

618. Westgate, Alice W. A. & Reeves, Ann T., Family of Thomas Rogers, General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 2000, Mayflower Families: vol. 19, p. 1.

Husband Thomas and son Joseph were part of the Mayflower contingent.Alice and daughters Elizabeth and Margaret and son John are listed inthe 1622 Leiden tax lists in the household of Anthony Clements.

Also known as Elsgen, which is Alice in Dutch.

: I421018

Name: Alice Cosford Sex: F Birth: BET 1560 AND 1580 in England Note: Ref; Atl. Spelling: Elsgen = Alice in Dutch. Ref; AFN: 1P12-0T1 Ref; Christened: 10 May 1573, Watford, Northampton, England Father: George Cosford Mother: Maragret Willis Marriage 1 Thomas Rogers , Pilgrim b: BEF 1572 in Of Watford, Northampton, England

Married: 24 OCT 1597 in Watford, Northampton, England Children

1. Thomas Rogers b: ABT 24 MAR 1597/98 in Watford, Northampton, England 2. Richard Rogers b: ABT 12 MAR 1598/99 in Watford, Northampton, England 3. Joseph Rogers b: ABT 23 JAN 1601/02 in Watford, Northampton, England 4. John Rogers b: ABT 6 APR 1606 in Watford, Northampton, England 5. Elizabeth Rogers b: ABT 26 DEC 1608 in Watford, Northampton, England 6. Margaret Rogers b: ABT 30 MAY 1613 in Watford, Northampton, England

Not to be confused with this individual (wrong husband Thomas Rogers):

New England marriages prior to 1700 By Clarence Almon Torrey, Elizabeth Petty Bentley Pg.669 http://books.google.com/books?id=mOgK8dM9qqUC&pg=PA669&lpg=PA669&dq...

Sherman, John (1585-1616 in Eng) & Grace {Makin},

m/2 Thomas Rogers, m/3 Roger Porter; in Eng, b 14 May1610; Dedham, Eng.
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Her parents were Tobias and Katherine. They resided at Fingeringhoe, Essex, England.

In “Ancestry of Rev. John Sherman and Capt. John Sherman” (NEHGR 51:309-315 (1897)), the author reviews the various wills of the time and concludes that Grace was most likely the daughter of Tobias Makin although confusion about her being born a Coolidge remains, and that she married multiple times:

m Rev. John Sherman (who died by 1625) by whom she had two sons -- Capt. John Sherman and Richard Sherman -- both under 21 in 1625.

m Thomas Rogers (who died 1638) by whom she had a daughter Elizabeth (who married Daniel Smith) (a 1625 will of Anne Sherman Auger/Anger includes: “I give to the two children of the wife of Thomas Rogers, John Sherman and Richard Sherman, my kinsmen, ten shillings a piece at their ages of one and twenty.” This bequest tells that Thomas Rogers married a widow whose former husband was named ___ Sherman, by whom she had these two children, John Sherman and Richard Sherman.

m William Palmer, widower (who died shortly after 1650). Palmer’s daughter Martha, by a former wife, had married Capt. John Sherman. They were married before Thomas Rogers died, for their first child John Sherman was born November 2, 1638.

m Roger Porter, widower, who died April 3, 1654, aged 71.

Did not come to America -------------------- Elsgen Grace Elizabeth Makin was born 1588 in Frugiughe, Essex, England. She died June 03, 1662 in Duxbury, Massachusetts, USA.

Parents: Tobias Makin (1548-1610) and Katherine Bell (1552-1610), both of Fingringhoe, Essex, England.

Married:

on 24 Jan 1616 in Leiden, Holland to Thomas Rogers. He was born in Jul 1586 in Of, Dedham, Essex, England, christened on 11 Jul 1587 in Stratford On Avon, Warwick, England, died on 12 Nov 1638 in Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts and was buried on 20 Aug 1639 in Watertown, Connecticut. He was the son of Barnard Rogers b. 1565 and Miss Mc Murdocke b. abt 1570, both of Scotland. n.b. NOT Thomas Rogers of the "Mayflower." Children of Thomas Rogers and Elsgen Grace Elizabeth Makin:

John Rogers, b. abt. 1614 See John Rogers & Anna Churchman Elizabeth Rogers, b. abt. 1609 Lysbe Rogers, b. abt. 1609 Grietgen Rogers, b. abt. 1609 Thomas Rogers, b. abt. 1609 Joseph Rogers, b. 1610 Margaret Rogers, b. abt. 1612

Author Eugene Stratton lists her as the wife of Thomas Rogers per the 1622 poll tax for Leiden. In her care were Thomas Rogers’ three children who remained in Leiden after he departed on the Mayflower with his son Joseph – they were listed as John, Lysbeth (Elizabeth) and Grietgen (Margaret).[6]

Date and place of death have also been (erroneously?) reported to be August 7, 1608 at Duxbury, Plymouth County, Massachusetts.

sources

1. http://www.thomasrogerssociety.com/p1.htm#i4
2. Eugene Aubrey Stratton, Plymouth Colony: Its History and People, 1620-1691, (Salt Lake City: Ancestry Publishing, 1986), p. 346
3. http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Grace_McKim_(1)

links

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Rogers_(Mayflower_passenger)
• http://www.xtal.info/merewether/mer539.html
• http://www.thejohnsonclan.org/genealogy/ancestors/Price-pedigree/40...

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https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LZFL-6B4

GEDCOM Note

Relationship: 9th great grandmother.

Pilgrim Thomas Rogers married in Watford, Northamptonshire, 24 October 1597, Alice Cosford, daughter of George Cosford. Their 6 (at most)children: Thomas Jr., (possibly) Richard, John, Elizabeth, & Margaret.

Stayed in Leiden, Holland when her husband Thomas and son Joseph crossed the Atlantic in the Mayflower.