From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <taf2@po.cwru.edu> Subject: Re: Warren of Ightfield Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:38:00 -0400

Reedpcgen wrote:

I haven't checked the following against original sources, so I'm not sure if
anything in print is accurate. But here is the descent as it is usually given:

1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet."

2. Griffin de Warren, illegitimate son, dead 1286, m. Isabel de Pulford, sister
of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298.

Eyton [Antiquities of Shropshire, vol IX(?):210] discusses the origin of this family. He concludes that Griffin de Warren, husband of Isabel de Pulford, was son of William de Warenne als. de Albo Monasterio als. de Whitchurch, d.c.1240. That William was son of a Ranulf de Warenne, who Eyton concluded was brother of William de Warenne and Reginald de Warenne of Wormsgay. (Early Yorkshire Charters argues that this last affiliation is not correct, that there was an earlier Ranulf at Whitchurch, and that this earlier Ranulf dates back to Domesday. He cannot be accurately placed among the family, but based on use of the names Ranulf and William was likely related to the senior line.) This Griffin is said by Eyton to have fl. 1240, 1263, 1272.

3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m.
Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch [these
earliest two generations seem kind of suspicious].

In light of the above, your concern seems warrented - Griffin de Warren was Griffin de Whitchurch. Eyton gives dates of 1284/5 and 1310 for John.

4. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Wynifred, d. & coh. of William Broxlon of
Chester.

5. John de Warren of Ightfield, liv. 1314, 1335, m. Ellen, d. of John
Chorleton.

6. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, d. 1356, m. Maud/Matilda, d. of Fulke, Lord
Strange of Blackmere, afterwards married Sir Piers (or Peter) de Cornwall, lord
of Kinlet, Shropshire.

Here is where things get a bit confusing. Eyton next mentions a Griffin in 1356, and I have a note (of unknown source) which says that in 1356 Griffin entails land to his grandson Griffin, son of his son John. Eyton also says that Griffin's wife was named Elizabeth, but it is unclear from my notes if this refers to the grandfather or the grandson.

Next I have a Plea Roll pedigree dating to 9/10 Richard II (ca.1386/7) which reports the following pedigree:

Griffin=Isabel de Pulford temp. Edward II John Griffin John Griffin - the plaintiff 9/10 Richard II

Now if this hasn't dropped two generations, then the Visitation pedigree has added two, because the Griffin d. 1356 would have to be the middle one (if this death date is accurate).

7. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Margaret Corbet, daughter of Sir Piers de
Corbet.

8. John Warren of Ightfield, d. ca. 1413, m. Matilda/ Margaret/ Emma, daughter
of Sir John Cheney of Willaston.

The ipm of John, heir of Griffin de Warren reports his death 4 Feb. 1412/3, leaving son and heir Griffin aged 13. Griffin's ipm reports his death 5 Oct. 1415, heir sister Margaret aged 13. A couple of years later, her proof of age gave her bapt. 11 Jun. 1401.

9. Margaret Warren, sister and coheir, m. William Mainwaring, d. 1498/9, had
Ightfield, Shropshire, and Stratton, in Tilston, Cheshire, with lands in
Broxton.

But I don't have Morris's notes to the pedigree so I don't know what further
evidence he uses to estrablish the line.

I remember at least one of the middle Griffins being named in a Hunt article discussing a possible descent from princess Joan (and specifically in relation to the Strange family), but I haven't been able to find it. All of these wives appear to derive from the Shropshire Visitation, which is untrustworthy.

taf

3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m. Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch

The de Albo de Monasterio's are an old Chetwynd family, and Whitchurch is a market town in Shropshire, England on the Wales-England border. It is the oldest continuously inhabited town in Shropshire. In 1240 there is mention of Castle Album de Monasterium in Burke's Peerage.It is held by William, son of Willam de Warrenne de Albo Monasterio.

http://books.google.com/books?id=VjxAoYdBimsC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=A....
Also:

Albhttp://books.google.com/books?id=fU1NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=william+de+whitchurch&source=bl&ots=mZzxRT2PvS&sig=aWnKpjbWqMO8Ixb8n7CzDnAyH9A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=18JHU8zmBOm18AHVp4HoCA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=william%20de%20whitchurch&f=falseum Monasterium most probably is Anglicized to mean "Whitchurch". There was known to be a lay manor there. http://books.google.com/books?id=boI1AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA63&lpg=RA1-P...

Sources:http://www.ourfamilyhistories.org/getperson.php?personID=I123168&tr...

Research Question: Is Griffin de Warenne really Griffen de la Pole? http://books.google.com/books?id=tcQ_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA212&lpg=PA212&dq... The de la Poole name was taken when they became lords of Powys, under the English King. AKA Griffin of Whitchurch

William de WHITCHURCH [Parents] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 was born 1199 in Whitchurch, Shropshire, England. He died Mar 1253 in Whitchurch, Shropshire, England. William married Eve FITZ WARIN on 1241 in Whitchurch, Shropshire, England.

Also:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hwbradley/aqwg782... Other marriages: AUDLEY, Amice de Eve FITZ WARIN [Parents] 1, 2, 3, 4 was born 1216 in Whittington, Shropshire, England. She married William de WHITCHURCH on 1241 in Whitchurch, Shropshire, England.

Other marriages: IORWERTH, Llywelyn "The Great" ab They had the following children:

		F	i	 Joan de WHITCHURCH was born 1242 and died after Jan 1293.

		F	ii	 Maud de WHITCHURCH was born 1244.

		F	iii	 Eve de WHITCHURCH was born 1246.

		F	iv	 Eleanor de WHITCHURCH was born 1248 and died 1305.

		M	v	 Griffin WARREN was born 1251 and died 1285. _______________________________________________________________________________________ http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Griffen_Warren_1288

   * Illegitimate Son of John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey

   * Born abt. 1288 in Arundel, England.

   * Died in Newbourne, Woodbridge, Suffolk Co, England. 

Biography Edit href= Edit

From the information I have, the first Griffen Warren was a natural son of The 6th Earl of Warren and Surrey but not by his wife and therefore illegitimate. The name of his mother seems to have been lost but this is a known line and further details together with family trees can be found in "Memoirs of the Earls of Warren and Surrey", by Watson, first published in 1782 and recently reproduced on CD rom - see Tomburch@aol.com

Another reference can be found in " A History and genealogy of the Warren Family", by Rev. Thomas Warren, first published in 1902 This has been reprinted on several occasions and I have an address in UK where to the best of my knowledge, these can still be obtained.

Added Info Edit href= Edit

But here is the descent as it is usually given:

   * 1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet." 

   * 2. Griffin de Warren, illegitimate son, dead 1286, m. Isabel de Pulford, sister of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298. 

   * 3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m. Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch [these earliest two generations seem kind of suspicious]. 

   * 4. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Wynifred, d. & coh. of William Broxlon of Chester. 

   * 5. John de Warren of Ightfield, liv. 1314, 1335, m. Ellen, d. of John Chorleton. 

   * 6. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, d. 1356, m. Maud/Matilda, d. of Fulke, Lord Strange of Blackmere, afterwards married Sir Piers (or Peter) de Cornwall, lord of Kinlet, Shropshire. 

   * 7. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Margaret Corbet, daughter of Sir Piers de Corbet. 

   * 8. John Warren of Ightfield, d. ca. 1413, m. Matilda/ Margaret/ Emma, daughter of Sir John Cheney of Willaston. 

   * 9. Margaret Warren, sister and coheir, m. William Mainwaring, d. 1498/9, had Ightfield, Shropshire, and Stratton, in Tilston, Cheshire, with lands in Broxton. But I don't have Morris's notes to the pedigree so I don't know what further evidence he uses to estrablish the line. 

Children of Griffen Warren Edit href= Edit

   * John Warren 1320 

Genealogical Record Mistakes Edit href= Edit

   * Not son of William de Warenne 1256, he died too early in 1286.

   * Not son of William de Warenne 6th Earl of Surrey, he also died too early - 1240. 

4.Griffin de Warrenne Ightfield was mentioned as ISTEFELT in the Domesday Book and though not as important as some parishes in the area, it had its own priest which implies an established community which had its own church. The constant necessity of defending their territories against the Welsh prompted the Norman lords of Shropshire to such activity in castle-building that out of 186 castles in England no less than 32 are in this county. Shropshire became a key area within the Welsh Marches

Here is the descent as it is usually given: 1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet." 2. Griffin de Warren, illegitimate son, dead 1286, m. Isabel de Pulford, sister of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298. 3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m. Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch [these earliest two generations seem kind of suspicious]. 4. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Wynifred, d. & coh. of William Broxlon of Chester. 5. John de Warren of Ightfield, liv. 1314, 1335, m. Ellen, d. of John Chorleton. 6. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, d. 1356, m. Maud/Matilda, d. of Fulke, Lord Strange of Blackmere, afterwards married Sir Piers (or Peter) de Cornwall, lord of Kinlet, Shropshire. 7. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Margaret Corbet, daughter of Sir Piers de Corbet. 8. John Warren of Ightfield, d. ca. 1413, m. Matilda/ Margaret/ Emma, daughter of Sir John Cheney of Willaston. 9. Margaret Warren, sister and coheir, m. William Mainwaring, d. 1498/9, had Ightfield, Shropshire, and Stratton, in Tilston, Cheshire, with lands in Broxton. But I don't have Morris's notes to the pedigree so I don't know what further evidence he uses to establish the line. Sources: Memoirs of the Ancient Earls of Warren and Surrey, and Their Descendants to the Present Time by John Watson pg 215-220. He cites Vincent's Cheshire that is said to contain a complete pedigree of this Griffinus de Warenna, son of John Warenne, Earl of Surrey.

◾http://www.warrenfamilyhistory.com/ ◾http://www.bigelowsociety.com/rod/warren1.htm - Warren Family History from Bigelow Family Society. ◾http://www.edmund-rice.org/ - Edmund Rice 1638 Association - Family Genealogical Database and research. - His Ancestors and Descendants. ◾The Generations of the Warren Family ◾The New England historical and genealogical register - Volume 64 - Page 353-360. Summarizes the Generations of Robert Warren to John Warren in medieval England.

http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Warenne_Family_Ancestry

Source: http://www.thevalleyfamily.org/getperson.php?personID=I17558562194&...

Illegitimate Son of 1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet." Griffinus de Warenna - latin spelling in their records. ◾ Father: William de Warenne (1231-1304), 6th Earl of Surrey ◾ Mother: Unknown ◾ 1288 (ABT) : Birth in Arundel, England. ◾ 1310 (ABT) : Marriage to Isabel de Pulford, sister of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298. ◾ Died (sometime after 1320, birth of son John) in Newbourne, Woodbridge, Suffolk Co, England. .William had Griffin, by an unknown mother. "Earl Warren had a natural son , called Griffen de Warren whose coat armor was cheeky argent and fable, differing in nothing from his father's, but in color; and yet this implied no reflection on the father, for illegitimate children were at this time publicly owned, and frequently well provided for. From what mother this Griffin came is uncertain, but that he was son of this earl, appears from Vincent's Chesire in the Heralds office*, where is a pedigree of him, and all his descendants, with the arms of the families they matched with. (1)

(1) Memoirs of the Ancient Earls of Warren and Surrey, and their Descendants to the Present Time. Author: John Watson. 1782. Page 215. The Warren-Pulford Crest is illustrated on this page. (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Warenne,_5th_Earl_of_Surrey https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=_VeVwcwUUG4C&printsec=front...

Another reference can be found in " A History and genealogy of the Warren Family", by Rev. Thomas Warren, first published in 1902 This has been reprinted on several occasions and I have an address in UK where to the best of my knowledge, these can still be obtained.

Here is the descent as it is usually given: 1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet." 2. Griffin de Warren, illegitimate son, dead 1286, m. Isabel de Pulford, sister of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298. 3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m. Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch [these earliest two generations seem kind of suspicious]. 4. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Wynifred, d. & coh. of William Broxlon of Chester. 5. John de Warren of Ightfield, liv. 1314, 1335, m. Ellen, d. of John Chorleton. 6. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, d. 1356, m. Maud/Matilda, d. of Fulke, Lord Strange of Blackmere, afterwards married Sir Piers (or Peter) de Cornwall, lord of Kinlet, Shropshire. 7. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Margaret Corbet, daughter of Sir Piers de Corbet. 8. John Warren of Ightfield, d. ca. 1413, m. Matilda/ Margaret/ Emma, daughter of Sir John Cheney of Willaston. 9. Margaret Warren, sister and coheir, m. William Mainwaring, d. 1498/9, had Ightfield, Shropshire, and Stratton, in Tilston, Cheshire, with lands in Broxton. But I don't have Morris's notes to the pedigree so I don't know what further evidence he uses to estrablish the line. Genealogical Record Mistakes:

Not son of William de Warenne 1256, he died too early in 1286 Children of Griffen Warrenne: John Warren 1320

Sources: Memoirs of the Ancient Earls of Warren and Surrey, and Their Descendants to the Present Time by John Watson pg 215-220. He cites Vincent's Cheshire that is said to contain a complete pedigree of this Griffinus de Warenna, son of John Warenne, Earl of Surrey.

◾http://www.warrenfamilyhistory.com/ ◾http://www.bigelowsociety.com/rod/warren1.htm - Warren Family History from Bigelow Family Society. ◾http://www.edmund-rice.org/ - Edmund Rice 1638 Association - Family Genealogical Database and research. - His Ancestors and Descendants. ◾The Generations of the Warren Family ◾The New England historical and genealogical register - Volume 64 - Page 353-360. Summarizes the Generations of Robert Warren to John Warren in medieval England.

http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Warenne_Family_Ancestry

Griffin de Warren died in 1286. He married Isabel de Pulford.

From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <taf2@po.cwru.edu> Subject: Re: Warren of Ightfield Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:38:00 -0400

Reedpcgen wrote:

I haven't checked the following against original sources, so I'm not sure if
anything in print is accurate. But here is the descent as it is usually given:

1. William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, son of Hameline "Plantagenet."

2. Griffin de Warren, illegitimate son, dead 1286, m. Isabel de Pulford, sister
of Robert, rector of Coddington, Cheshire, widow 1286 and 1298.

Eyton [Antiquities of Shropshire, vol IX(?):210] discusses the origin of this family. He concludes that Griffin de Warren, husband of Isabel de Pulford, was son of William de Warenne als. de Albo Monasterio als. de Whitchurch, d.c.1240. That William was son of a Ranulf de Warenne, who Eyton concluded was brother of William de Warenne and Reginald de Warenne of Wormsgay. (Early Yorkshire Charters argues that this last affiliation is not correct, that there was an earlier Ranulf at Whitchurch, and that this earlier Ranulf dates back to Domesday. He cannot be accurately placed among the family, but based on use of the names Ranulf and William was likely related to the senior line.) This Griffin is said by Eyton to have fl. 1240, 1263, 1272.

3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m.
Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch [these
earliest two generations seem kind of suspicious].

In light of the above, your concern seems warrented - Griffin de Warren was Griffin de Whitchurch. Eyton gives dates of 1284/5 and 1310 for John.

4. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Wynifred, d. & coh. of William Broxlon of
Chester.

5. John de Warren of Ightfield, liv. 1314, 1335, m. Ellen, d. of John
Chorleton.

6. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, d. 1356, m. Maud/Matilda, d. of Fulke, Lord
Strange of Blackmere, afterwards married Sir Piers (or Peter) de Cornwall, lord
of Kinlet, Shropshire.

Here is where things get a bit confusing. Eyton next mentions a Griffin in 1356, and I have a note (of unknown source) which says that in 1356 Griffin entails land to his grandson Griffin, son of his son John. Eyton also says that Griffin's wife was named Elizabeth, but it is unclear from my notes if this refers to the grandfather or the grandson.

Next I have a Plea Roll pedigree dating to 9/10 Richard II (ca.1386/7) which reports the following pedigree:

Griffin=Isabel de Pulford temp. Edward II John Griffin John Griffin - the plaintiff 9/10 Richard II

Now if this hasn't dropped two generations, then the Visitation pedigree has added two, because the Griffin d. 1356 would have to be the middle one (if this death date is accurate).

7. Griffin de Warren of Ightfield, m. Margaret Corbet, daughter of Sir Piers de
Corbet.

8. John Warren of Ightfield, d. ca. 1413, m. Matilda/ Margaret/ Emma, daughter
of Sir John Cheney of Willaston.

The ipm of John, heir of Griffin de Warren reports his death 4 Feb. 1412/3, leaving son and heir Griffin aged 13. Griffin's ipm reports his death 5 Oct. 1415, heir sister Margaret aged 13. A couple of years later, her proof of age gave her bapt. 11 Jun. 1401.

9. Margaret Warren, sister and coheir, m. William Mainwaring, d. 1498/9, had
Ightfield, Shropshire, and Stratton, in Tilston, Cheshire, with lands in
Broxton.

But I don't have Morris's notes to the pedigree so I don't know what further
evidence he uses to estrablish the line.

I remember at least one of the middle Griffins being named in a Hunt article discussing a possible descent from princess Joan (and specifically in relation to the Strange family), but I haven't been able to find it. All of these wives appear to derive from the Shropshire Visitation, which is untrustworthy.

taf

3. John de Warren, lord of Ightfield jure ux (through marriage), liv. 1289, m. Audelin, daughter and heir of Griffin de Albo Monasterio/Whitchurch

The de Albo de Monasterio's are an old Chetwynd family, and Whitchurch is a market town in Shropshire, England on the Wales-England border. It is the oldest continuously inhabited town in Shropshire. In 1240 there is mention of Castle Album de Monasterium in Burke's Peerage.It is held by William, son of Willam de Warrenne de Albo Monasterio.

http://books.google.com/books?id=VjxAoYdBimsC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=A....
Also:

Albhttp://books.google.com/books?id=fU1NAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=william+de+whitchurch&source=bl&ots=mZzxRT2PvS&sig=aWnKpjbWqMO8Ixb8n7CzDnAyH9A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=18JHU8zmBOm18AHVp4HoCA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=william%20de%20whitchurch&f=falseum Monasterium most probably is Anglicized to mean "Whitchurch". There was known to be a lay manor there. http://books.google.com/books?id=boI1AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA63&lpg=RA1-P...

Sources:http://www.ourfamilyhistories.org/getperson.php?personID=I123168&tr...

Sources:

Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.

"Date: 24 Jul 1998 03:57:03 GMT

From: Reedpcgen<reedpcgen@aol.com > <mailto:reedpcgen@aol.com >

To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1998072403570400.XAA12208@ladder03.news.aol.com> Subject: Warren of Ightfield

Sources: Wales. Welsh Medieval Database Primarily of Nobility and Gentry .

1.[S2416] #12627 Genealogy of Shropshire [by Joseph Morris] (filmed 1966), Morris, Joseph, (10 volumes. Manuscript filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1966), vol. 1-2 FHL microfilm 504,551; vol.3-4 FHL microf., vol. 3 p. 1115.