Guy IV de Brian, of Walwyn's Castle

comments

Surname has also been reported to be de Bryan.

Date and place of birth have also been (erroneously?) reported to be circa 1160 at an unspecified location.

content to clean up

See Page 82 of A Genealogical History of the Dormant: Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct ... By Sir Bernard Burke— very clear that Maud was the only child Guy de Bryan had with Eve de Tracy.

From http://www.geneajourney.com/brian.html#maudbrian

Guy de Brian b abt 1222, of Laugharne, Carmarthenshire, Wales. He md Eve de Tracy abt 1240, daughter of Henry de Tracy and Maud de Braose.

Children of Guy de Brian and Eve de Tracy was:

• Maud de Brian [a] b 25 Dec 1242, d bef Dec 1279. She md [1] Sir Nicholas Martin bef 1257, son of Sir Nicholas Fitz Martin, and [2] Geoffrey de Camville.

Guy de Brian b abt 1250 was the son of the 2nd wife

NOTES:

Despite claims to the contrary, there is no connection between the Brian family and that of Brienne.

Citations

• CP Vol III[4];
• AR: Line 63A[30-31];
• SGM: Jay Cary, Richard Borthwick.

  ---

Another view

From http://knight-france.com/geneal/names/4938.htm

Source <http://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/bb4fz/bryan1.php>:
"... Guy de Brian or Bryan of Torbryan or Tor Brian (a mid-12th century) (I)

1. Guy de Brian or Bryan (II) ...

A. Guy de Brian or Bryan ('Adomarus') (b c1202) (III) m. Jane de la Pole named in some web sites

i. Guy de Brian or Bryan of Walwyn's Castle (b 1228, d c1268) (IV) BE1883, which starts with this Guy, clearly reports that he had 2 wives, Eve (mother of Maud only) and the unidentified mother of the next Guy. On the grounds that, for these early years, information about a widow is often more clearly recorded than information about earlier wives, we presume that Eve was Guy's second wife. m1. ??

a. Sir Guy de Brian of Walwyn's Castle, Laugharne Castle, and Tor Brian (b c1254, d 1307) (V) m. Sibil de Sully (dau of Walter de Sully)

(1) Sir Guy de Brian or Brien of Walwyn's Castle, Laugharne Castle, and Tor Brian (d by 1349) (VI) There is some confusion as to the identity of the wives of this and the next Guy ....

—

From https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval... 11/25/03

• 1. Guy de Bryan/Brienne m. Jane de la Pele/Pole. [5] [6] It was noted byTAF [7] that this de Bryan family is separate, and distinct, from the de Brienne family associated with the crown of Jerusalem. (It is not clearregarding the name of Guy's wife Jane-was she de la Pele or de la Pole?)
• 2. Guy de Bryan [5]. Married Eve de Tracy, but she was not the mother of#3. [6] [8]
• 3. Guy de Bryan m. Sybil de Sulley [5] [6] daughter of Walter de Sulley andMabel de Somery [6]

  ---

References

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walwyn%27s_Castle
• http://mauriceboddy.org.uk/Bryan.htm Guy IV de Brian (born c.1228), of Walwyn's Castle, married twice. Sources suggest Guy IV's son & heir was Guy V by his first wife, and that Maud was a daughter by his second wife, based on there usually being more information available about a widow than an earlier wife. However this gives a dating problem, i.e. Maud was (apparently) ten years older than Guy. This may be avoided by transposing the order of the wives, which is here done, which assumes historians are correct in stating Maud's mother was Eve. Therefore, according to this theory, Guy IV married 1. [TRAC402] Eve (see TRACY); then 2. ---. This then leaves the question about Maud being only 14 years younger than her father, but perhaps Guy was born earlier than stated. Guy received a grant from King Henry III to hold a yearly fair at his manor of Talachar, the former name of Laugharne, (1247). Guy had acquired Laugharne Castle (Carmarthenshire) by 1247, and also Walwyn's Castle (Pembrokeshire). He rebuilt Laugharne Castle which was then in a bad state of repair.
• <http://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/bb4fz/bryan1.php>
• J.J. Alexander (1936). "The Early Owners of Torbryan Manor". Retrieved 10 January 2023. < link >