Hugh FitzHugh de Say, of Richard's Castle, 5th baron of Burford

From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm

Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The

Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.

From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps25/ps25_453.htm

Cokayne, G.E. "Mortimer of Richard's Castle" in "The

Complete Peerage" Vol. IX, pp.258.

HUGH DE SAY, son and heir [of Hugh by Lucy de Clifford]. He was keeper of Norton Castle, in what is now co. Radnor, and fought under Richard I in Normandy in 1194. In 1195 he was in charge of the castle of Bleddfa in the March, now co. Radnor. In 1196 he and Roger de Mortimer of Wigmore were defeated near Radnor by the Welsh prince Rhys.

He married Mabel, daughter of Robert MARMION. He was assessed to the third scutage of the army in Normandy in 1196, and seems to have been living in the early part of 1197, but died s.p.m., before Michaelmas that year. His widow Mabel by Easter 1201 was married to Reynold [---]. She was dead before Michaelmas 1210. [Complete Peerage IX:258]

THE FIFTH "BARON BURFORD"

Hugh de Say of Richard's Castle died in the 1190 financial year and his son, Hugh (Fitzhugh) de Say was made responsible for the 11 pound, 10 shilling which Osbern Fitz Hugh had owed for scutage due on his 23 knights' fees in Herefordshire. The second Hugh Say seems to have been a much more warlike character than his father and this in the end may have been his undoing. In 1191 the Welsh seem to have been putting pressure on the lands around the Teme and Lugg valleys. As a consequence, the loyal barons of King Richard I ("The Lion Hearted") seem to have been ordered by the Chancellor to seize two Chandos castles, while the Chancellor himself, between 18 May and 8 July, forced Mortimer of Wigmore to surrender Wigmore Castle as Roger had been 'intriguing with the Welsh'. Towards the end of his life, Hugh decided to try to regain his position in Wales and joined the Marchers in the great royally backed campaign against the Prince of Deheubarth and his adherents in 1195. At Michaelmas that year it was recorded that Hugh de Say had been granted 100 shillings in aid of repairing Bleddfa (Bledwach) Castle, the vill of which had been held by Osbern Fitz Richard at Domesday.

In 1196 Rhys ap Gruffyd of Deheubarth attacked Radnor Castle and destroyed it and the town. No sooner was the castle destroyed than Roger Mortimer of Wigmore (d. 1214) and Hugh de Say of Burford drew up their forces 'in the valley near that town'. A great battle ensued and the Marchers were utterly defeated, with the alleged loss of some forty knights and an innumerable number of foot. However, a study of royal records at this time shows no losses at all amongst the known knightly followers of Mortimer, and the only death that can be suggested with any certainty in the Say lordship appears to be that of Hugh de Say himself! By early 1197 it would seem that Hugh Fitz Hugh de Say of Burford was dead and it seems possible that he either died at the battle or, as his death was not mentioned in the Welsh Chronciles, soon afterwards of his wounds. Around the same time it became obvious that another Helias de Say had succeeded his father Hugh at Stokesay.

http://www.castles99.ukprint.com/Essays/richards.html

Family

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#_To...

HUGH de Say [I], son of HUGH FitzOsbern & his wife Eustachia de Say (-1190). … m as her first husband, LUCY, daughter of WALTER Clifford & his wife Margaret ---. "Hugh de Say and Lucia his wife, daughter of Walter de Clifford, son of Richard fitz Poncius"

Hugh & his wife had three children:

• 1. HUGH de Say [II] ([1165/70]-killed in battle ([1196]). "Lucia de Say daughter of Walter de Clifford" donated land in Rocheforde to Haughmond Abbey, with the consent of "her son Hugh de Say", by undated charter, witnessed by "Hugh de Say, Walter de Clifford"[511]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], records "Hugo de Say" paying "xxiii l, xxiii milites" in Herefordshire, and granted delay to pay in Berkshire[512]. m [as her first husband,] MABEL Marmion, daughter of --- (-before 3 Dec 1215). The primary sources which confirm her parentage and [first] marriage have not been identified. The chronology of her [first] husband’s family suggests that Mabel could have belonged to the same generation as Robert Marmion [V]. [She married secondly Roger de Amundeville. Hugh & his wife had two children (the possibility of a third child is discussed above under Hugh’s wife):
  • a) LUCY de Say (-[20 Oct/8 Nov] 1204?). Her existence is confirmed by the following document. King John instructed the sheriff of Somerset to grant “saisina manerii de Gifle...que fuit Luce de Say aine fil Hug de Say q est in custodia sua” to “Willo de Cantilupo”, dayed 20 Oct 1204[515]. As her younger sister Margery was already married at that date, maybe Lucy was handicapped in some way. The order dated 8 Nov 1204 cited below under her paternal uncle Gilbert granted “custodiam manerii de Gifle” to “Gilb de Say”. One possibility is that Lucy had died before that date.
  • b) MARGERY de Say ([1190/96]-1230). Her family origin and first marriage are confirmed by the 5 Jul 1219 document cited below. … m firstly (1197 or after) HUGH de Ferrers of Lechlade, son of WALKELIN de Ferrers & his wife --- (-before [15/21] Aug 1204). m secondly ([6 May 1209/Jun 1211]) ROBERT de Mortimer, son of ROGER [III] de Mortimer & his [second] wife Isabel de Ferrers (-before 5 Jul 1219). m thirdly (Royal licence 23 Nov 1219) WILLIAM de Stuteville, son of WILLIAM de Stuteville & his wife --- (-before 20 May 1259).

    ---

References

• https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Say-7
• Proceedings of the Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society. By Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society. Page 207. < GoogleBooks >