Joan Radcliffe

This Joan de Holand was the wife of Hugh de Dutton (born 1276), and the daughter of Robert de Holand (born 1241) and Elizabeth de Salmesbury (born 1256).

She is NOT the Joanne Holland who was the wife of John Radcliffe, and the daughter of Robert de Holland, 1st Baron Holland (born 1283) and Maud la Zouche.

SEE ALSO OTHER JOAN HOLAND'S PROFILE:

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm

ROBERT de Holand, son of --- (-1230).

m CICELY Columbers, daughter of ---.

Robert & his wife had one child:

1. THURSTAN de Holand (-1275). m --- Kellet, daughter of ---. Thurston & his wife had one child:

a) Sir ROBERT de Holand (-[1300]). m ELIZABETH de Samlesbury, daughter of WILLIAM de Samlesbury & his wife --- (-after 1311). Sir Robert & his wife had [two] children:

i) Sir ROBERT de Holand of Upholland, Lancashire ([1270]-7 Oct 1328, bur [Preston, Lancs, Grey Friars Church]). He was created Lord Holland 29 Jul 1314.

ii) [JANE de Holand . m firstly Sir EDMUND Talbot of Bashall. m secondly Sir HUGH Dutton of Dutton, Cheshire.]

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http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/RADCLIFFE3.htm#John RADCLIFFE of Ordsall (Sir)2

John RADCLIFFE of Ordsall (Sir)

Born: ABT 1269, probably Ordsall, Lancashire, England

Died: probably BEF 1314 / 1353

Notes: youngest son. His family's attachment to the cause of insurgent barons under the Earl of Lancaster, led John eventually into the service of the Queen's party, where he was rewarded with the favour of Queen Isabella and the warm friendship of the young Prince Edward, to whose personal service he was attached. Accompanied the Queen and the Prince during their sojourn on the Continent, where they sought the protection of Count William of Hainault, to whose daughter, Phillipa, the boy Prince was contracted by marriage. In Sep 1325 Isabella landed with her son at Orwell in Suffolk, supported by a force of two thousand men, which the Count of Hainault had placed at her disposal. Edward II was deposed and Prince Edward proclaimed in his stead. The following spring Sir John Radcliffe was despatched to Hainault, to conduct Phillippa to England for her marriage to Edward III, and to act as King's Proxy in the preliminaries concerning the marriage. As soon as Edward was firmly established on the throne, having proved his quality by his courage against the Scots in his first expedition of a military nature, the Queen-mother's star began to set. Queen Isabella was banished for the remainder of her life to the seclusion of Castle Rising. During the next five years Sir John Radcliffe was engaged with the King against the Scots, and in 1337 was sent to Flanders to open negotiations for a treaty between the King and the Flemish trading cities, which were anxious to secure the support of the powerful Edward III against the King of France. For several years John Radcliffe remained in Flanders, rendering valiant service in counsel and in arms to Jacob van Artevelde and his associates in Ghent, Bruges, and Ypres. So much so, that when he was asked to name his reward he immediately requested that a number of the Flemish craftsmen should be permitted to return to England, there to teach their arts of manufacture to his own people. The request was readily granted, and he thereupon conducted these men and their families to England, settling them in Lancashire, of which county he had been appointed a Knight of the Shire in 1340. In 1341 John Radcliffe acquired from John de Belshaw the latter's interest in the bailiwick of the serjeancy of Rochdale, 'with all its rights to be held of the chief lord of the fee by accustomed service'. The charter is dated at Whalley 18 Nov 1341, and was witnessed by Richard de Radcliffe, Robert de Radcliffe, John de Clitheroe, and Richard Fyshwycke, Clerk. In 1346 Edward began the siege of the fortress of Calais, which finally capitulated on 4 Aug 1347. During this campaign Sir John Radcliffe was in constant attendance on the King, with a personal entourage of two knights, twelve esquires, and fourteen archers, and so nobly did he distinguish himself throughout the engagements, that the King granted him the right to use what has been described as the proudest family motto in all the nobility of England, the superscription 'Caen, Crecy, Calais', which has been borne by his lineal descendents from that time to the present day. After the surrender of Calais Sir John returned to establish his possession of Ordsall manor, against Sir John Blount and the De Leghs, who had assumed the estate after the death of Sir Robert, his cousin. In the intervals of the lengthy litigation that challenged his occupation until 1359, when his rights in Ordsall lands were finally conceded, he busied himself with public duties, particularly in fostering the new industries his proteges from Flanders had introduced into the district.

Sir John married Joan de Holland, the daughter was Sir Robert Holland, the particular favourite of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, and his foremost lieutenant. By her first husband, Sir Hugh Dutton, Joan Holland had a son, Sir Thomas Dutton, who was Seneschal and Receiver of the Castle of Halton in Cheshire, and Sheriff of Cheshire, 1356-59. One of his descendants was Sir Ralph Dutton, the prominent Royalist, and another was created Baron Sherborne of Sherborne in 1784. After the death of Sir John, Joan married a third husband in Sir Edmund or Thomas Talbot of Bashall.

The period of Sir John's settling at Ordsall was the time of the Black Death, and an interesting sidelight is thrown on his character when, at a time lands were going out of cultivation for want of labourers and many men were realising their properties and fleeing with their capital abroad, Sir John chose that time to forsake military distinction and apply himself to the illustrious but no less worthy duty of a landed proprietor, the stay of simple men and a helper of the distressed, ministering to the needs of his neighbours and assisting the prosperity of the commonwealt. There was a virulent outbreak of the pestilence in the winter of 1361. It lasted for none months, and in the spring of 1362 Sir John Radcliffe died, a victim perhaps of the sickness that decimated his tenantry. The postmortem inquisition shows him holding Ordsall by knight's service and a rent of six shillings and eightpence, as well as lands in Flixton and elsewhere, including 40 acres in Salford held by knight's service and twenty shillings rent. The Ordsall estate is therein described as including a hall with 5 chambers, kitchen, chapel, 2 stables, 3 granges, 2 shippons, garner, dovecoat, orchard, a windmill, 80 acres of arable land, and 6 acres of meadow. Eight years before, the manor was described as 'a messuage, 120 acres of land, 12 acres of meadow, and 12 acres of wood'.

The manor of Moston was held by the Radcliffes of Ordsall until 1394, when Sir John of Ordsall, grandson of the original Sir John, gave his lands at Moston, presumably for life, to Henry Strangeways. After this Sir John's death in 1422, a dispute arose regarding the possession of Moston, and in 1425 a settlement was arrived at whereby his son and heir, another Sir John, was to hold the Moston lands for life, with the remainder to James, the son of Richard Radcliffe of Radcliffe. The estate remained in the possession of the Tower family until the death of their last heir without issue caused them to pass to the FitzWalter Radcliffes under settlement, and in 1543 Henry, Earl of Sussex, sold Moston Hall to John Reddish. The Ordsall family did, however, retain a portion of the lands in Moston, since Sir William Radcliffe is shown in possession of them at his death in 1568.

Father: Richard RADCLIFFE

Mother: Margaret BUTLER

Married: Joan HOLLAND (b. BET 1273/1276 - d. ABT 1326) (dau. of Robert Holland and Margaret De Salmesbury) (w. of Sir Hugh Dutton - m.3 Sir Edmund Talbot of Bashall) BEF 1301 / 1322, Holland, Lancashire, England

Children:

1. Richard RADCLIFFE

2. Annabel RADCLIFFE

2. Margaret RADCLIFFE (b. 1327)

3. Joan RADCLIFFE (b. 1330)

4. John RADCLIFFE (Sir)

5. Ellen RADCLIFFE

6. Julia RADCLIFFE

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_de_Holland,_1st_Baron_Holand

Marriage and issue

Melbourne Castle was started by de Holland in Melbourne, Derbyshire.[1]About 1308 he married Maud la Zouche, daughter of Lord Alan la Zouche, 1st Baron la Zouche of Ashby and Eleanor de Segrave.

Robert and Maud had thirteen children:

Joane Holland (c. 1305 - 1340). Married John Radcliffe.

Margery Holland (born c. 1308).

Robert Holland (c. 1312 - 16 March 1372/1373).

Thomas Holland, 1st Earl of Kent (c. 1314 - 26 December 1360).

Sir Otho Holland KG (c. 1316 - 3 September 1359). One of the founders and 22nd Knight of the Order of the Garter in 1348.

John Holland (born c. 1318).

Maud Holland (born c. 1319). Married Thomas Swinnerton.

Alan Holland (c. 1320 - 1339).

Elizabeth Holland (born c. 1320).

Margaret Holland (c. 1322 - 1349).

Jane Holland (born c. 1326).

Eleanor Holland (c. 1327 - 1341).

Elizabeth Holland (born c. 1328). Married Henry FitzRoger

Further References

The family line of Robert de Holland can be traced through the Washington lineage right up to today, where several generation of Hollands live in the village of Washington, Tyne & Wear.

References

1.^ Melbourne Castle, Picture the Past, accessed August 2009

The Royal Ancestry Bible Royal Ancestors of 300 Colonial American Families by Michel L. Call (chart 27) ISBN 1-933194-22-

Plantagenet Ancestry by Douglas Richardson, et al., 2004 ISBN 9780806317502

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http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/RADCLIFFE3.htm

Sir John married Joan de Holland, the daughter was Sir Robert Holland, the particular favourite of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, and his foremost lieutenant. By her first husband, Sir Hugh Dutton, Joan Holland had a son, Sir Thomas Dutton, who was Seneschal and Receiver of the Castle of Halton in Cheshire, and Sheriff of Cheshire, 1356-59. One of his descendants was Sir Ralph Dutton, the prominent Royalist, and another was created Baron Sherborne of Sherborne in 1784. After the death of Sir John, Joan married a third husband in Sir Edmund or Thomas Talbot of Bashall.

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A history of the chantries within the county palatine of ..., Volume 59 By Francis Robert Raines Pg.52

http://books.google.com/books?id=aEoJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=J...

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I think the dates for Joane do not match up with her parents?

I have found Joane who married John Radcliffe at Wikipedia and the dates are different but still suspect, and Tudorplace which has different dates and parents Robert Holland and Margaret De Salmesbury. FMG lists Joan as dau of Robert Holland and Margaret De Salmesbury but lists only the husbands Edmund Talbot & Hugh Dutton .

I was not able to find any listing at FMG and thePEERAGE for John Radcliffe & Joane Holand.

Carole Pomeroy

Joane Holland (c.1273 - d.)

Robert de Holand II, 1st Baron Holand (c.1283 - 1328)

Maud de la Zouche (1290 - 1349)

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http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/RADCLIFFE3.htm#John RADCLIFFE of Ordsall (Sir)2

John RADCLIFFE of Ordsall (Sir)

Born: ABT 1269, probably Ordsall, Lancashire, England

Died: probably BEF 1314 / 1353

Notes: youngest son. His family's attachment to the cause of insurgent barons under the Earl of Lancaster, led John eventually into the service of the Queen's party, where he was rewarded with the favour of Queen Isabella and the warm friendship of the young Prince Edward, to whose personal service he was attached. Accompanied the Queen and the Prince during their sojourn on the Continent, where they sought the protection of Count William of Hainault, to whose daughter, Phillipa, the boy Prince was contracted by marriage. In Sep 1325 Isabella landed with her son at Orwell in Suffolk, supported by a force of two thousand men, which the Count of Hainault had placed at her disposal. Edward II was deposed and Prince Edward proclaimed in his stead. The following spring Sir John Radcliffe was despatched to Hainault, to conduct Phillippa to England for her marriage to Edward III, and to act as King's Proxy in the preliminaries concerning the marriage. As soon as Edward was firmly established on the throne, having proved his quality by his courage against the Scots in his first expedition of a military nature, the Queen-mother's star began to set. Queen Isabella was banished for the remainder of her life to the seclusion of Castle Rising. During the next five years Sir John Radcliffe was engaged with the King against the Scots, and in 1337 was sent to Flanders to open negotiations for a treaty between the King and the Flemish trading cities, which were anxious to secure the support of the powerful Edward III against the King of France. For several years John Radcliffe remained in Flanders, rendering valiant service in counsel and in arms to Jacob van Artevelde and his associates in Ghent, Bruges, and Ypres. So much so, that when he was asked to name his reward he immediately requested that a number of the Flemish craftsmen should be permitted to return to England, there to teach their arts of manufacture to his own people. The request was readily granted, and he thereupon conducted these men and their families to England, settling them in Lancashire, of which county he had been appointed a Knight of the Shire in 1340. In 1341 John Radcliffe acquired from John de Belshaw the latter's interest in the bailiwick of the serjeancy of Rochdale, 'with all its rights to be held of the chief lord of the fee by accustomed service'. The charter is dated at Whalley 18 Nov 1341, and was witnessed by Richard de Radcliffe, Robert de Radcliffe, John de Clitheroe, and Richard Fyshwycke, Clerk. In 1346 Edward began the siege of the fortress of Calais, which finally capitulated on 4 Aug 1347. During this campaign Sir John Radcliffe was in constant attendance on the King, with a personal entourage of two knights, twelve esquires, and fourteen archers, and so nobly did he distinguish himself throughout the engagements, that the King granted him the right to use what has been described as the proudest family motto in all the nobility of England, the superscription 'Caen, Crecy, Calais', which has been borne by his lineal descendents from that time to the present day. After the surrender of Calais Sir John returned to establish his possession of Ordsall manor, against Sir John Blount and the De Leghs, who had assumed the estate after the death of Sir Robert, his cousin. In the intervals of the lengthy litigation that challenged his occupation until 1359, when his rights in Ordsall lands were finally conceded, he busied himself with public duties, particularly in fostering the new industries his proteges from Flanders had introduced into the district.

Sir John married Joan de Holland, the daughter was Sir Robert Holland, the particular favourite of Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, and his foremost lieutenant. By her first husband, Sir Hugh Dutton, Joan Holland had a son, Sir Thomas Dutton, who was Seneschal and Receiver of the Castle of Halton in Cheshire, and Sheriff of Cheshire, 1356-59. One of his descendants was Sir Ralph Dutton, the prominent Royalist, and another was created Baron Sherborne of Sherborne in 1784. After the death of Sir John, Joan married a third husband in Sir Edmund or Thomas Talbot of Bashall.

The period of Sir John's settling at Ordsall was the time of the Black Death, and an interesting sidelight is thrown on his character when, at a time lands were going out of cultivation for want of labourers and many men were realising their properties and fleeing with their capital abroad, Sir John chose that time to forsake military distinction and apply himself to the illustrious but no less worthy duty of a landed proprietor, the stay of simple men and a helper of the distressed, ministering to the needs of his neighbours and assisting the prosperity of the commonwealt. There was a virulent outbreak of the pestilence in the winter of 1361. It lasted for none months, and in the spring of 1362 Sir John Radcliffe died, a victim perhaps of the sickness that decimated his tenantry. The postmortem inquisition shows him holding Ordsall by knight's service and a rent of six shillings and eightpence, as well as lands in Flixton and elsewhere, including 40 acres in Salford held by knight's service and twenty shillings rent. The Ordsall estate is therein described as including a hall with 5 chambers, kitchen, chapel, 2 stables, 3 granges, 2 shippons, garner, dovecoat, orchard, a windmill, 80 acres of arable land, and 6 acres of meadow. Eight years before, the manor was described as 'a messuage, 120 acres of land, 12 acres of meadow, and 12 acres of wood'.

The manor of Moston was held by the Radcliffes of Ordsall until 1394, when Sir John of Ordsall, grandson of the original Sir John, gave his lands at Moston, presumably for life, to Henry Strangeways. After this Sir John's death in 1422, a dispute arose regarding the possession of Moston, and in 1425 a settlement was arrived at whereby his son and heir, another Sir John, was to hold the Moston lands for life, with the remainder to James, the son of Richard Radcliffe of Radcliffe. The estate remained in the possession of the Tower family until the death of their last heir without issue caused them to pass to the FitzWalter Radcliffes under settlement, and in 1543 Henry, Earl of Sussex, sold Moston Hall to John Reddish. The Ordsall family did, however, retain a portion of the lands in Moston, since Sir William Radcliffe is shown in possession of them at his death in 1568.

Father: Richard RADCLIFFE

Mother: Margaret BUTLER

Married: Joan HOLLAND (b. BET 1273/1276 - d. ABT 1326) (dau. of Robert Holland and Margaret De Salmesbury) (w. of Sir Hugh Dutton - m.3 Sir Edmund Talbot of Bashall) BEF 1301 / 1322, Holland, Lancashire, England

Children:

1. Richard RADCLIFFE

2. Annabel RADCLIFFE

2. Margaret RADCLIFFE (b. 1327)

3. Joan RADCLIFFE (b. 1330)

4. John RADCLIFFE (Sir)

5. Ellen RADCLIFFE

6. Julia RADCLIFFE

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http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm

Sir ROBERT de Holand of Upholland, Lancashire, son of Sir ROBERT de Holand & his wife Elizabeth de Samlesbury ([1270]-7 Oct 1328, bur [Preston, Lancs, Grey Friars Church]). He was created Lord Holand 29 Jul 1314.

m ([1311]%29 MATILDA la Zouche, daughter and co-heiress of ALAN la Zouche of Ashby, Leicestershire, Lord Zouche & his wife [Eleanor de Segrave] (1290-31 May 1349, bur Brackley). The Book of Lacock names “Elam, Matildam, Elizabetham, Rogerum de la Souche” as children of “Alanus de la Souch” and his wife[658].

Sir Robert & his wife had six children:

1. Sir ROBERT de Holand (1312-Hawes, Brackley 16 Mar 1373, bur Brackley, St James's Chapel). He succeeded his father in 1328 as 2nd Lord Holand. m ELIZABETH, daughter of ---. Robert & his wife had one child:

a) ROBERT de Holand (-Mar 1373 or before). m ([1355]%29 JOAN [Alice], daughter of ---. Robert & his wife had one child:

i) MAUD de Holand (1356-7 May 1423). She succeeded her grandfather in 1373 as Baroness Holand, suo iure. m ([1372]%29 JOHN Lord Lovel, son of JOHN Lovel, Lord Lovel & his wife Isabel la Zouche of Haringworth ([1354]-Wardour 10 Sep 1408, bur [Brackley, Northants, Church of St John's Hospital).

2. Sir THOMAS de Holand of Broughton, Buckinghamshire (1314-in Normandy 26 or 28 Dec 1360, bur Stamford, Church of the Grey Friars). He was summoned to a Council 1354 as Lord Holand. He succeeded as Earl of Kent, de iure uxoris.

3. MARGARET de Holand (-20/22 Aug 1349). m (before 1326) JOHN La Warre, son of JOHN La Warre Lord La Warre & his wife Joan de Grelley (-before 24 Jun 1331).

4. ALAN de Holand . He owned the manors of Dalbury and Wecksworth, Derbyshire.

5. Sir OTHO de Holand (-[1360/61]).

6. MARY de Holand . m Sir JOHN Tempest of Bracewell, Yorkshire.

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http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL.htm

ROBERT de Holand, son of --- (-1230).

m CICELY Columbers, daughter of ---.

Robert & his wife had one child:

1. THURSTAN de Holand (-1275). m --- Kellet, daughter of ---. Thurston & his wife had one child:

a) Sir ROBERT de Holand (-[1300]). m ELIZABETH de Samlesbury, daughter of WILLIAM de Samlesbury & his wife --- (-after 1311). Sir Robert & his wife had [two] children:

i) Sir ROBERT de Holand of Upholland, Lancashire ([1270]-7 Oct 1328, bur [Preston, Lancs, Grey Friars Church]). He was created Lord Holland 29 Jul 1314.

ii) [JANE de Holand . m firstly Sir EDMUND Talbot of Bashall. m secondly Sir HUGH Dutton of Dutton, Cheshire.]

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The Magna Charta Barons and Their American Descendants [1898] By Charles H. Browning Pg.288

http://books.google.com/books?id=LsYJ_YB8dpwC&pg=PA288&lpg=PA288&dq...

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