John Water(s), York Herald

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John Water(s), York Herald's Geni Profile

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John Walter(s) (Waters)

Birthdate: (82)
Death: March 28, 1502 (58-86)
Greyfriars' Church (Christ Church, Newgate), London, Greater London, England, United Kingdom
Place of Burial: London, Greater London, England, United Kingdom
Immediate Family:

Son of Christopher Waters and Christianna Waters
Husband of Mary Waters
Father of Stephen Waters

Managed by: Thomas Leonard Watkins
Last Updated:
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Immediate Family

About John Water(s), York Herald

York Herald of Arms in Ordinary is an officer of arms at the College of Arms. The first York Herald is believed to have been an officer to Edmund of Langley, Duke of York around the year 1385, but the first completely reliable reference to such a herald is in February 1484, when John Water alias Yorke, herald was granted certain fees by Richard III. These fees included the Manor of Bayhall in Pembury, Kent, and 8 pounds, 6 shillings, and 8 pence a year from the Lordship of Huntingfield in Kent. The badge of office is the white rose of York en soleil ensigned by the Royal Crown. (Wikipedia)

John Waters seems to have made his peace with Henry VII, because he is on record as being reappointed by him in 1486 and undertaking overseas diplomatic missions for him in 1486, 1488 and 1493.

JOHN WATER or WALTER Rose Blanche, temp. Ed. IV.

Rouge Croix, temp. Ed. IV.

York, c. 17 February 1484.

Earliest trustworthy mention of a York herald is pat. 17 February 1484, granting to John Water alias Yorke, herald, as fee of his office and for services to Richard III, his predecessors and ancestors, manor of Bayhall, in Pembury, Kent, and £8. 6s. 8d. a year from lordship of Huntingfield, Kent; reappd York 25 September 1486; 1486 and 1488 sent to France; 1493 Garter mission to Duke of Calabria; d. 28 March 1502; burd in Greyfriars' Church (Christ Church, Newgate).

Lant's statement that he was Rose Blanche and Rouge Croix temp. Ed. IV unconfirmed. Query if he is not identical with John Water, Warwick and Chester. See Chester (7).

Arms: Sable, a fess wavy barry wavy argent & azure between 3 swans argent. Berry & later dictionaries add: Crest: A demi-talbot argent with an arrow gules in the mouth.

Walter H Godfrey and Anthony Wagner, 'York Herald', in Survey of London Monograph 16, College of Arms, Queen Victoria Street (London, 1963), pp. 182-193. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/bk16/pp182-193 [accessed 19 March 2016]. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/bk16/pp182-193#p14


Identification of John Walter/Water/Waters, York Herald, with the John Walter/Waters who married Mary Gold is dubious, supported only by an unsubstantiated record at Ancestry.com.


7. JOHN WATER or WALTER

Warwick, date unknown.

Chester, c. 1455 (?), dismissed 1471.

Name only known from two documents: (1) pat. 2 July 1471, granting comprehensive pardon to John Water or Walter, herald of arms, lately called Chester herald and lately called Warwick herald; and (2) bond 17 July following by Holme, Norroy and John Dee, Montacu, as his sureties. Not said when he held those two offices; probably herald to Richard Earl of Warwick, the 'King maker', becoming Chester c. 1455, and dismissed (probably in April) 1471 for supporting the earl at Barnet Field. Cannot have been reinstated as Chester for Thomas Whiting had that place in 1473; may perhaps have been made York, see John Water, York (3).

April 1465 lent to Lord Scales [Anthony Woodville, later Earl Rivers] to carry his challenge to the Bastard of Burgundy; although royal herald then wore Scales' tabard (Excerpta Hist., pp. 172, 175, 192). http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/bk16/pp119-129

NB: if this is the same person as the York Herald of that name, he must have been a very old man by 1502.

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John Water(s), York Herald's Timeline

1420
1420
1490
1490
Age 70
Hertfordshire, England, United Kingdom
1502
March 28, 1502
Age 82
London, Greater London, England, United Kingdom
????
London, Greater London, England, United Kingdom