Mary S. Haines

This website says she was a daughter of an Indian Sachem http://www.westjerseyhistory.org/books/decou1/mtn17.html families 131

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/9313813/mary-haines

https://archive.org/details/richardhaineshis01hain/page/48/mode/2up

Married: 1691

"Mary Carlile, said to have been an Indian maiden, and also said to have been born in London, 5 mo. (July) 20, 1674; daughter of John and Mary (Goodwin) Carlile. Since the identity of Mary Carlile has caused much controversy, this subject will be discussed more fully elsewhere in this volume. The date of their marriage is also uncertain. In the Haines Ancestry it is stated that the marriage took place in 1699. In Virkus the date is given as 1691. Since no record of a marriage has ever been found, it is difficult to establish a date. However, Richard and Mary Haines were witnesses to the marriage of Francis Austin and Mary Borton on 7 mo. (Sept.) 15, 1696, at Friends' Meeting, Haddonfield."

The extended "discussion" in Richard Haines and His Descendants by John W. Haines is 5 pages of small type - more than I want to import here. In essence, there is a long oral tradition that Mary Carlile was a Native American. Those that are skeptical say that there is no documentation to support such a claim. Those that believe say that the information came from descendants who were old enough to have known Richard and Mary. From a letter dated 6/4/1889 from Richard Haines of Medford NJ to Rowland I. Haines: "...the Indian blood from my grandmother, whom I have frequently heard speak of her great-grandmother, Mary Carlile, the Indian woman. I make mention of Mary Carlile from the fact that it is very objectionable to some of the family, but nevertheless, if there is any truth in tradition we cannot do otherwise than admit the Indian blood. Our authority is John Haines, the son of Carlile, the son of Richard and Mary, who lived to be nearly one hundred years old and saw his grandfather and grandmother and remembered and talked with three of his great uncles. He was born in 1742. Rsptfly, Richard Haines."

"It has been claimed that the story of Mary Carlile being an Indian girl could not be believed, because it was a tradition only, and traditions seldom reflect the entire truth. While it is admitted that the statement 'as allied by blood to Pocahontas' was highly traditional, the part about Mary Carlile being an Indian girl does seem possible, and could have been true. John Haines (1742-1832), known as 'Fostertown John Haines,' was the grandson of Mary Carlile. He and his brother Solomon Haines (1728-1820) who lived near him, both lived to an advanced age. In fact, they lived during the time in which it was possible to remember the first Haines settlers, and also during the time in which they could be remembered by those living late in the nineteenth century. Abigail Haines (1762-1847) was one of the great-granddaughters of Mary Carlile and the mother of Dr. George Haines (1798-1877) who collected the greater part of the family data contained in the Haines Ancestry. Core Haines (1766-1841), a great-grandson of Mary Carlile, who married Mary Haines (1767-1850), the daughter of Fostertown John Haines, and their son, Mark Haines (1807-1884) all lived to an advanced age. While it is said that Fostertown John Haines told Mark Haines about the Indian ancestry of Mary Carlile, inasmuch as these descendants of Mary Carlile lived to such advanced ages, and in the same community, any knowledge about Mary Carlile must have been common knowledge. This is borne out by the fact that Richard Haines, compiler of the Haines Ancestry wrote that his grandmother, Abigail Haines, told him the same story that Fostertown John Haines told Mark Haines."

"When the steps by which information has been relayed can be followed, it seems that such information should not be classed as traditional, but more as fact."

How could she have been a Carlile (and named her son Carlile) and still been a Native American? "Many Indian girls must have been taken into the homes of the early settlers to perform household duties." ..."There was certainly some relationship between Mary Carlile Haines and the Carlile brothers, Abraham and John. Was she their sister, or was she an Indian girl who had been taken into the Carlile household? If the latter, she would have taken an English last name, most likely the name of the family with which she lived, and would have been given an English first name. She would have been considered a member of the family, could have signed the marriage certificate of John Carlile, and would have a reason for naming sons Abraham and Carlile."

Obviously, I am one persuaded to the opinion that Mary Carlile Haines was a Native American. The argument against it seems weak to me, consisting only of the negative (no decisive documentation). But there is no decisive documentation to say that she wasn't Native American, and the word of her own grandson(Fostertown John Haines) and others is enough for me.

• Reference: Ancestry Genealogy - SmartCopy: Feb 18 2018, 8:18:36 UTC

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GEDCOM Note

Also reported to be born in Burlington Co,NJ. In the Milton Rubincan Family Papers Vol ll this much admired genealogist shows another Mary. These records are from the "Quarterly Meeting Records of London & Middlesex, Society of Friends. Rubincan's research is as follows:

JOHN CARLIELL, of the parish of Stepney, Spittlefields, county Middlesex, broadweafer; married MARY GOEDOWNE, spinster, At Westbury Street Friends' Meeting House, London on 20d 1m 1671. They were members of the Devonshire House Monthly Meeting . Children: 1. John b 15d 3m 1672 Stepney d 11d 4m 1676, age about 4 years; died of the smallpox, buried in Chequer Alley 2. Mary b 4d 6m 1673, residence of parents: Browns Lane near Spittlefields. d 19d 6m 1673 aged about 1 week (no first name was recorded in the record of death; but the age, one week, corresponds approximately with the date of birth of Mary on 4d 6m 1673; actually, if this identification is correct, she was 2 weeks old. Buried Checker Alley) 3.***MARY b 20d 5m 1674 4. Abraham b 9d 9m 1675 5. John b 4d 2m 1677, residence of parents: Phenix Street, hamlet of Spittlefields, London d 14d 5m 1677, age about 14 weeks; died of convulsions. Buried at Ratcliff. 6. John b 13d 4m 1678 7. Elizabeth b (no record of birth could be found in the transcripts of Friends" records d 17d 2m 1681; aged about 2 weeks. Buried at Checker Alley.

John Carlile, probably the father of the above named children, died of a fever, 283m 1681, & was buried in Checker Alley. His residence was stated to be Spittlefields.

Rubincan continues with: Record of the Marriage of John Carlile to Mary Glading, both of the town of Burlington, at Burlington Meeting House. Witnesses: 50 persons, including: Abraham Carliell, Hannah Carlile, William Glading, Richard Haines, and Mary Haines. Rubincan's note followed: Compare carefully the names of the above members of the Carlile family with the names of the children of John and Mary (Goedowne) Carlile (Carliell) from the London and Middlesex Quarterly Meeting Records, given in this volume. It is evident that the Carlile family immigrated to Burlington Co., NJ. John, who married Mary Glading in 1704, was probably the John whose birth in 1678 is recorded in England. Abraham, one of the witnesses, is undoubtedly the Abraham born in 1675. Hannah is no doubt his wife. Note also the names of Richard and Mary Haines. Richard H Jr. is known to have married Mary Carlile, probably the born in England in 1674. Her presence as a witness to John Carlile's marriage to Mary Gllading is evidence of that. All of these circumstances refute the family tradition that Mary (Carlile) Haines was an Indian girl and a member of the Lenni Lenape tribe of Delawares. End of Rubincan's record, For those interested in having more about the Carlile family : John Carlile, the grandfather of Mary Carlile who mar Richard Haines Jr was born 1619 in London, England, mar ca 1647, d 1d 3m 1692 London, England his wife was Jane....maiden name unknown. Jane was born 1629 and died 21d 12m 1689/90 in London nothing more is known. Abraham Goedowne, the other grandfather of Mary Carlile who mar Richard Haines Jr was of Wentworth St., London and on 27 Sept 1640 mar Mrs. Elizabeth (........) Duffill. They were married at St Dunstan's in the East, Stepney , Middlesex, London. It can also be found in the Marriage Registers of St. Dunstan's Vol ll for 1640-1696 page 7. jhk12925@aol.com Was thought to have been of Indian descent of the Lenni Lenape Tribe. She was educated and civilized and a very capable woman. Information provided by John Wesley Haines via Bill Wentz and information and the Ancestor Search Library.

GEDCOM Note

From Opal Maple, 2314 Catherine Drive, Galesburg, IL 61402-1402, maple@@misslink.net:

Tradition says that she was of Indian lineage, Lenni Lenape. She was a very capable woman. Her husband appointed her and his daughter as executors of his estate, showing the esteem he had of her ability.

GEDCOM Note

The birthplace & parents could be incorrect if she is in fact NATIVE AMERICAn which some accounts seem to wholly believe. Also the parents could have took her in. From _Ancestry of the Haines, Sharp, Collins,Wills, Gardiner, Prickett, ...by George Haines, Richard Haines, Amos Haines Troth, Milton Rubicam Ancestry of the Haines, Sharp, Collins, Wills, Gardiner, Prickett, Eves, Evans, Moore, Troth, Borton & Engle Families_ Compiled From The Notes Of The Late GEORGE HAINES, M.D.

With some additions by the compiler Richard Haines, Medford New Jersey. Published Camden, N.J. : Sinneckson Chew & Sons Company, Printers. 1902. Copywright Nov 5 1902 By Richard Haines

Mary Carlile, the wife of Richard Haines, tradition says, was of Indian lineage, Lenni Lanape. RIN: MH:N16421