Mendel Morduchovich Persitz

Rabbi, Advocate in St.Peterburg, owner of a law office in St.Peterburg, brother of the famous rich philantropist Rabbi Zelig Morduchovich Persitz

[Incorrect. MENDEL WAS A MERCHANT, MEMBER OF THE 1ST GUILD SINCE 1902 AND THROUGH AT LEAST 1914. DEALT IN METALS AND OTHER BUILDING MATERIALS FROM HOME OFFICE ON GOROHOVATA STREET. NEVER A LAWYER.]

[Answer by Y.D.P to Masha Elena Geller, who wrote these arguments of objection:

First of all, your data about Mendel Mordukhovich cited here seems to be based on the listings about him in the St.Petersburg Merchants Directory. My information about him, included in these descriptions, which your are challenging, were based, if I remember correctly the sources of my research from many years ago, in addition to this Directory, also on the data taken from some other, russian language Directories of St.Petersburg. That they list him as a layer, owner of a law office in St.Petersburg, does not neccesserily contradict his beeing a merchant, member of the 1st guild and a dealer in metals and building materials. It is because my other sources, which list him as a lawer, may refer to an erlier time, then this Merchant Directory, which mentions him as a merchant. The explaination of this contradiction could be, that originally he got an education as a lawer and even started his carrier in St.Petersburg as an owner of a lawer office, but later changed his occupation to the typical for the "Persitz Clan" carrier as a merchant. Please, see the continuation of my answer to your objection, in my next comment to your second objection written below ...]

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St. Peterburg (Gorocovskaya 45) 1914 Kupetz 1. Gildi. Optovaya Zhelezn. Torkovlija

The quetion if Yankel Persitz was a half brother should be checked together with the tree of Benzian Persitz that may not be part of our tree.

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http://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000026314254899

"The St. Petersburg merchants directory" for 1903, which lists Persitz Mendel Morduchovich together with his wife MINA SAMUILOVNA and their daughter TAMARA.

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Gravestone listing has him dying at age 46, which would put his birthyear at around 1869

[THIS CAN NOT BE THE RIGHT GRAVE. MENDEL WAS BORN IN 1863 AND LIVED UNTIL AT LEAST 1915. ALSO HE WAS.NEVER A RABBI]

[Answer by Y.D.P to Masha Elena Geller, who wrote these arguments of objection - continuation:

Your conclusion that "this can not be the right grave" could be incorrect. As the reasons for your conclusion you gave:
1. the mismatch in the exact years of his birth, between the year given on this gravestone inscription, and the year of his birth calculated from his ages as published in the St.Petersburg Merchants Directory; 2. that he has been living "until at least 1915"; 3. and also that "he was never a Rabbi".

Here following are my explainations for all these three objections.

1. Concerning the obvious mismatch in the years of birth between these two sources: From the Merchant Directories we calculated his birth year as 1864. But this gravestone give his birth year, in Hebrew, as תרכט, which means (5)629, which corresponds to 5629-3760=1869. Thus we have a discrepance of 5 years between these two sources, and the Merchant Directory makes him 5 years older then the Gravestone's date. This discrepance can be easily explained ! Exactly the same mismatch in the years of birth we have found in the original metrical book record for Zavel Persitz, who was born in the same small place as also our Mendel Mordukhovich, in the records found in the Mogilew Metrical book. There it is written that originally, according to the population census made in 1858, he was recorded in 1858 as having been 5 years old, but later, in 1872, this figure "5" was corrected to "13", thus making him as having been 13 years old back in 1858. Notice that they never wrote a year of birth in these old metrical books, but just wrote how old was a person in which year. And many times this information turned out to be erroneous, and was corrected later, in the same handwritten records in these metrical books. As Mendel Morduchovich was born in the same small village as also the above mentioned Zavel, and must have been recorded in the same metrical book, possibly by the same officers, it is not beyond the scope of possibility to concider, that also in this metrical record, his age at some given years may have been recored erroneously. But in contrast to Zavel's case, Mendel's record of age may never have been corrected in this original metrical book. Such situation would automatically lead to a mismatch between his age and estimated years of birth, between the sources based on his original metrical documents (listing an erroneous age and hence an erroneous year of birth), and those sources based on his own testimony, to which surely have belonged also this Merchant Directory, listing its data, based also on personal interviews with the Merchants, listed in this Directory. In the later case, of course, Mendel would know very well his real age, and would give them the correct figure, which ended up being printed in these St.Petersburg Merchants Directories. But as for his gravestone, it may have been based on the original metrical records, which contained an erroneous year of birth. Thus this logic can perfectly explain this strange discrepance of 5 years between the two sources.

2. Concerning his living "until at least 1915": It seems to me that your source for this statement may be these same St.Petersburg Merchants Directories, which do not go beyond this year 1915, and thus do not prove, that he would be living beyond 1915. Unless you can provide a real proof of his having been alive after 1915, we can not reject the correctness of his death being in 1915, according to this Gravestone.

3. Concerning his "never having been a Rabbi": The father of Mendel Mordukhovich, Avraham-Mordekhai Yeselevich Persitz, is known to us to have been a RABBI, and many of his other sons, the brothers of Mendel Mordukhovich, have gotten an education as RABBIS. One of his most famous brothers who had occupation as merchants but were educated as Rabbis, was Rabbi Yehoshua-Zelig Mordukhovich Persitz. And it was typical in this very religious Rabbinical family to educate children as Rabbis first, and only then to give them a secular education, mostly a practical one, preparing them for an occupation as Merchants. Our Mendel Mordukhovich seems to fit very well into this common pattern. And also, this Gravestone Inscription calls him רבי מנחם מנדל פערסיץ "RABBI Menahem-Mendel Persitz". This was my source for calling him a "Rabbi" in his geni-profile. And your objection that "he never were a Rabbi" seems to be based on the modern concept of a Rabbi as a full-time "job"-like occupation, as a "state sponored rabbi". In the earlier times this modern concept was either rare or altogether nonexistant. And a title "Rabbi" has been used not to indicate an occupation of a person, his trade, his source of income, but rather as his title based on the Education, not unlike our modern concept of scientific grades "Dr.", "Doctor of Science", "Dr, of Philosophy", which often have nothing to do with a current occupation, a trade and a source of income of that person.

End of comment ]